Going through the Plano 3700 collection last month I sorted out all of my baby bass and bluegill lures for the first time and took a look at their combined beauty.

There's been some great stuff made over the past 10 years. Most everyone who makes swimbaits has felt compelled to make a baby bass or a baby bluegill and most of those reside in my boxes somewhere.

The thing is, everything in these boxes still has a shiny, fresh look. Compare and contrast with my Slammer box or my Hudd box, right? The baby bass box has a few that have produced bass for me, but the bluegill box was like a tooth-mark free zone.

This all just gets me to thinking that bass don't really want to eat their own kind. Bass and bluegill are spiny. They're fast. They're probably pretty crunchy in the stomach if you can capture that visual.

Compare this with a nice soft trout or shad. Even a crappie isn't that bad for eating purposes. You never hear about a huge bass floating on the surface with a trout stuck in its throat. But you do hear about the ones that choked on a half pound sunfish.

Come to think of it, people don't even really like to eat bass or bluegill much. Not when compared with trout or crappie. Maybe that's unrelated...

So I'm not saying a bass won't go cannibal at times, or that you shouldn't buy these lures. But I think that when given the choice, a bass will pick something soft over something spiny any day of the week.

Your thoughts and disagreements? :)

I gave up on the baby bass baits many years ago. Basically same thoughts as you. I felt they would eat it but only if they really had no other food source in the area. I have a few baits that do catch fish, but at the end of the day I don't go home thinking. "Damn the fish were all over baby bass today".

Bluegill on the other hand I have afew baits that I use that bass think are bluegill. I am not talking the big bluegill. I believe the bass love to munch on the 3" type bluegill in the late summer that come into there homes to chill. Even if there are other food sources in the area. A dumb juvenile bluegill is an easy snack. munch, munch

I think Lake hit it on the head when it comes to bluegill. Most of the swimbaits that imitate bluegill are too big IMO. I used to catch big bass on live bluegill in a local pond when I was a kid but they seemd to only eat the 1 to 1 1/2 inch babies, anything larger than that and our catch rate would decline.

Its too early to say! I haven't had a chance to fish baby bass baits as much as I'd like to. I sure did some damage on baby bass colored MS Slammer back in the day on Otay. The big Otay bass used to chase and follow the 1 pounders we caught on worms....which we later connected the dots to throwing baby bass swimbaits and did pretty well.

I like baby bass personally, and think its a solid color, especially when you don't have a 'big' alternative color of bait to throw. Okeechobee has an abundance of 8" baby bass.....and you don't see many golden shiners in the grass.....so, I was just thinking about baby bass colors as an option because its a more readily available food source. I need a bait that draws out the 6-9 pounders and I totally believe an 8" baby bass would get munched (are they that spiny? not really) no problem. I have little bass cough up fry all the time. Cannibalism seems pretty natural to me about bass behavior. Good subject for a fisheries person to experiment and study actually.

Bluegill, I've yet to do much damage either on that one, but aren't there a bunch of guys on the black dog shellcracker bait and bite? I mean, brim beds are a huge deal in the South late Spring. The bass literally are found around brim beds and the brim can be found around the willow fly (may fly) hatches that happen in the trees overhanging the lake....

I just haven't had a chance to commit to either in the South yet, so I'm more in the 'wait and see' mindframe than to say one way or another.

Most of the bass colored lures can represent a wide variety of forage as well. The main color schemes seem to be a dark green to black back with a lighter green side going into a cream belly with a few vertical bars or other pattern to break-up the profile a bit. That is a very general impressionistic pattern.

Rob come down here in the summer and we'll go to LMV. You'll get some teeth marks on those bluegill baits.

Not that I'm a big bass expert like some of you here but I think bass love to eat bass when presented with the opportunity along with the bluegill.

My friends favorite color in the punker is the baby bass and I've watched him wack them in the Delta.

I started throwing a few smaller bluegill baits this past year and they seemed to get smacked pretty good. Nothing big but I've watched some sizable bass munch on my hooked bluegill back in the days!

I figure if the stripers like the bluegill and bass so much then our big green girls should like them too!

Todd
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This is a good conversation. You guys are pointing out the examples where baby bass and bluegill patterns work. But think about the examples given. Otay, LMV, Delta.

I'd surmise that the bass in all of those locations don't have good options at the times when they are feeding on other bass.

LMV doesn't have shad as far as I know. I don't know how the trout fare in the warm months but I assume that's when the bass switch to eating bluegill and other bass more.

The Delta has shad but they aren't present in many areas or during all times of year.

Otay has shad but when that good Baby Bass Slammer bite was going, those bass looked pretty lean and mean to me - perhaps indicating a lack of shad? It was fun netting that 8lber for you years back Matt :)

Think about DVL right now. Loaded with trout and shad. Anybody heard of those fish getting on a killer baby bass or bluegill pattern bite lately?

I'm going to stick with the notion that if a bass can get something nice and soft like a shad or a trout, it's going to pick that every time over a baby bass / bluegill. I think they only go for that stuff when their back is up against the wall so to speak.

This post makes me want to go fishing at LMV for some reason.

I've had some good days on Castaic (Upper) with Bluegill baits. I had one stretch where I couldn't keep them off of them. In the summer when the trout are few and far between... I think the fish transition to the next best thing. The next best thing I think is whatever swims by them when they are willing to eat.

Rob I think you are stuck in that thought and its clouding your judgment. Bluegill are the #1 bass forrage anywhere where the two fish exist together. Ask any expert on pond and lake management. When they stock new ponds the bluegill is always #1. Its not that bass eat gills and baby bass because they have no trout. Its the other way around. They eat the trout because they are there and they are easier to catch. They were eating the gills before the trout were ever there and they will continue to eat the gills when they are gone. As for DVL I have lots of customers who swear by my gills there. They fish them deep like jigs and they have produced bass up to 13lbs out of DVL that I know of.
I remember reading an article you wrote about fishing trout swimbaits. I specificaly remember you saying that your bait should look like a freashly stocked stupid trout. I think you said" I am a stupid trout, I am a stupid trout" That techniqque has worked the best for me when fishing trout swimbaits (thank you for that :) ) However that does not translate over so well when fishing gill baits. I dont think bass want to try and chase down a gill in open water. I think they wait untill the gill looks vonerable or they ambush it. I remember catching gills as a kid and I could see bass hanging around but they werent paying attention to the gills UNTIL I hooked one. Then the bass would attack it. My theory on fishing gill swimbaits and baby bass is to throw them in places they would be too afraid to be because they are in danger of being eaten. My #2 technique is eratic which triggers the bass's atack mode. I am guessing that you have been fishing gill baits like you would trout baits and this might be why they dont produce for you? Either way dont dismiss them, they produce over the intire country and even a world record in Japan.

Matt - I like what you're saying about fishing erratic with these baits. I'm not much of an erratic retrieve fisherman. The only times I find myself doing it is at Clear Lake and in So-cal.

You're totally right that when I've tried bluegill baits up here I've been fishing them slow and steady. That hardbait floating bluegill you make looks frickin great like that. But maybe I should be ripping it more?

Funny to see those DVL fish with the bluegill stuck in their mouth's right after I post this :) Don't know they know trout are yummier?

LMV = Lake Mission Viejo? That's a private pond, right, not open to public access?

So what food are we imitating when we cast out the number one bait color of all time: green pumpkin? I never use shad or trout colored senkos. Green pumkin and "baby bass" are my two favorite colors. I think Matt is right that bluegill imitations need to be fished in a way that don't make as much sense for some styles of baits, and probably in areas which are more friendly to 5 inch senkos than crankbaits.

I rescued not one.... but two bass yesterday from DVL that were choking on bluegills. Both floating with gills lodged in their mouths. One was a 3-4ish from what I recall and the other a little dude of a pound or so. Now what I want to know... with piles of trout in DVL, why are the bass eating bluegills? I could understand the little guy eating gills but why the one that was big enough to be a trout eater? I'll put the pictures up of them once I get them.

The only reasoning that I think these fish were on the gills are that the shad went down...



http://www.calfishing.com/dc/user_files/8375-hungry.JPG




http://www.calfishing.com/dc/user_files/8376-little_gil.jpg

those pics are getn me all excited

I think you hit it on the head with the stocker opportunity Rob. If you put a trout and a gill in front on a good sized bass and it had to choose, I too think the trout would be the choice. Stockers, as you've said before, are stupid. They don't really seem to understand the environment they are placed in. They swim around the lake looking for food, and they are often in open water, passing by all those ambush points for a big bass to hide in a rather oblivious nature.

Gills and other sunfish are different though. Bass do predate on baby gills from the time the baby gills are in the nest, and I think other sunfish have bass imprinted on their mind as a predator. Which is why I think erratic, fast retrieves seem to work best for sunfish baits. A bluegill or small red ear isn't going to swim calmly through the shallows past ambush points for bass. They are gonna gun it out of the danger zone, because they know something will eat them otherwise. I think bass either react and eat a gill when it slows suddenly or get disoriented, or when its wounded and moving erratically. Like you said also, gills are spiny. When a bass eats a bluegill or other sunfish, I believe it is gonna strike fast and kill its prey quickly, before it can defend itself via the spikes. If a 'gill sees the bass beforehand, it will flare its spikes and start to run, and then the bass is in danger. Maybe the fish like SMB8ER's with the gills in their throats were too slow on the draw and got spiked during the final part of the attack.

I've never really seen a baby bass bite. I know they work, and bass do the cannibal deal, but for some reason, I've observed bass a fair amount and have never seen one get cannibalized. I have seen a bigger fish chase smaller 1lbers away a lot, and I think that its less of a hunger trigger and more of territory instinct.