I have been thinking about this for a long time and was curious on what you guys might think about it. I've read Bill Murphy,s book IN PURSUIT OF GIANT BASS...twice actually. In his book, the biggest points he makes is to focus on outer edges in deep water. When I look at the two baits that have a known history for producing huge bass- the Jig and pig and Trout baits, I see lures that are better suited for shallow water. Of course jigs and some trout baits can be fished deep, it seems usually a jig is used for flipping shallow cover and most trout baits are designed to be worked on top. So what's the deal? Where does deep water fit in?

Right now i'm kinda torn between deep or shallow water. Mainly because I keep thinking that I need to do things differently than everybody else if I want to catch the biggest bass in the lake. The problem is that almost every time I go out I see guys working these outer edge spots off points, channels, dropoffs as well as shallow cover and I never see them making any huge catches. So it must be in the technique. It seems the only way to do things different than the crowd is to throw trout plugs. Any thoughts?

Well for now i'll just keep working that 9" slammer shallow and maybe in the future i'll be putting more reports on this board instead of questions.

Phil,
I have thought a lot about this too. Most of the real trophy hunters recommend fishing deep for big fish. And there are several guys who do really well on big fish doing it. I could write a lot about this, but I think it can basically be summed like this:

Most guys in a given lake are fishing shallow. This is especially true in Northern California. Because most people fish shallow, most fish, including big fish, are caught shallow. Add to this the likelyhood that if I a big fish is feeding, it will move shallow. When it's not feeding, it will move deep. So where are the easy big fish?? Up shallow. And where are the hard to catch big fish? Down deep. Some guys have cracked the deep fish. Bill Murphy obviously had them figured out. I know Mike Long catches some real giants down deep. I'm sure Bob Crupi catches a lot of deep fish, and he's the only guy to get two over 20. My guess is that to learn the deep fish requires a new way of thinking, a new set of baits and techniques, and a real 6th sense with your electronics and you lure to tell you what is going on down there. I'll take a lot of pride when I get my first 10+ in over 20 feet of water. It's not easy.

That all makes alot of sense. I have been trying to focus more on deeper water lately, but not as much as I should. The last couple trips i've expirimented with bouncing a MissionFish on the bottom in 18-20ft along the channel. I thought I got a bite yesterday doing this, but it's hard to tell when your bouncing aroung in white caps with so much line out. What I need to do is devote a whole day or several days fishing deep and see what I can learn from there. Time to break out the stitching rod!

I have been hearing about deep water bass forever, but with the exception of some smaller fish, I have not done very well. I don't think I have ever caught a 10 plus bass deeper than 15 feet (got a 9-7 on a jumbo shiner, in about 25 ft once).

Looking back on it, maybe I should have been concentrating on deeper water for the last 5 weeks....... wasn't catching double digit bass anywhere else anyway..... hmmmmm. Maybe next year.

In any case, I have to believe that with the cooler weather / surface temps, the hatchery trout will be staying up closer to the surface, especially immediatly following a planting, and more big bass will be coming up shallow to slam them. All I need to do is put my trout lure in front of one that's looking for an easy meal.

I would really like to believe that the bite will be turning back on in the next week or two.......

BTW Swimbait, Pablo is getting the morning fog / marine layer rolling back in every morning :-) I love it when this happens.

Peace,
Fish

We did see a good amount of trout activity shallow yesterday. I saw a bite size little trout jump just a few feet in front of a really good spot where I know big bass hang around. Maybe the bass were just out of sight, or maybe they were out deep. I couldn't tell since I didn't catch enough to tell me really what they were doing. I wish we had had some marine layer yesterday, it was just sunny hot and calm all day. Wind was from the east too which was wierd. I've had a couple sunny hot and calm days at Pablo now and they have all been the pits. Now in April, that would be a different story :-)

I pretty much agree with Rob here. Everyone is an expert at catching fish from 0-10 feet of water, so that's where the big fish are caught.

And although a lot of people do fish deep, they always seem to be throwing small fish baits. Drop shotting, dragging a split shot, etc... For example, at Calero my standard strategy is to drag a 4 inch worm in 20 ft for numbers of small bass and throw jigs up shallow for quality. But I almost never throw jigs down at 20 feet or the split shot rig in 3 feet. Now that I think of it, the few times I do throw jigs deep at Calero I catch quality fish.

Learning how to catch quality fish deep is a constant goal of mine. It shouldn't be so hard. Heck, 20 feet is only the length of your average bass boat.

Nico

I'm gonna have to echo what everyone else said... more big fish are caught shallow because that is where we as fisherman are and because the big fish are probably up shallow feeding and therefore more catchable...I'm gonna use my 17 as an example... it was caught on a huge flat that at the time was about 10 feet deep, the nearest deep water(20-30 ft deep) was maybe a hundred yards away, but that just happened to be near where the main creek channel and a feeder channel meet. I am guessing that the fish was up on the flat feeding on crawdads(had a bright red mouth) and saw an easier meal in my trout(M.S. Slammer)...but she probably lives in that creek channel. Ive spent more than a few days at San Pablo throwing a 5 and 8 inch sinking Optimum off of points and letting sink to the bottom and retrieving slowly and it produced a 4.5 but that was only in 6 feet of water. This last time out(sunday) i even tried trolling the optimum over the creek channel with no luck... my own personal belief and i have no proof but I believe that somewhere along that creek channel lives a 20+ that more than likely has never seen a lure...due to circumstance beyond my control though it is hard for me to fish it like I would want... but ya just gotta keep on pluggin... boy that was longer than i thought..
Erik P.

Thanks for all the insight guys. Discussions like this really help to keep me motivated as well as learn alot about big bass. Especially from guys who have several teens under thier belts.
I've mentioned this a few times, but as soon as this wedding is done in November, i'm planning on making some trips up north. It would be cool to meet some of you guys and maybe hook up to do some fishing.
As for now i'm gonna keep at it with these Northerns. Looks like we might have some cloudy weather on wednsday with some drizzle. Sounds like a trophy hunting day to me. I'm going to try and cut out of work a little early and chuck some wood at Lopez. Can't wait!

And look what Phil did when he got there!
http://www.calfishing.com/dcforum/freshreports/1868.html

Everyone knows "the book" says that big fish must have deep water access close by to be comfortable. That way they can suspend over deep water and move just a little ways to feed and then right back out to suspend. I have caught a 10+ out of about 45 ft. on a 4" worm at Poway, but I cant count the #'s of 8-10lb bass I've caught out of 1ft or less. And I'm not talking about trout baits on the surface. I've caught 8+'s on frogs in 6"of water. You can actually see the fishes back as it swims over to the frog to eat it. These are little pockets that have no deep water access within 100 yards or so. I guess they should consider re-writing "The Book".
My personal feeling is that you need a few things to allow those fish to be comfortable is the shallows. First off, there must be cover. Either grass, tulies, bushes, rock or even shade from a tree on the bank. This does three things, it hides the fish, shades their eyes and cools the water temp in the summer months. Second, there must be a valuble food source. And I'm not talking little bait fish. I've never seen a fat man run a mile for small flank steak, but he will run 2 miles for a fat filet mingon. Same thing holds true for big bass. Those big fish want a big meal. How many times have you got stuck in the back of a cove, gone to get your bait off, and seen a thousand bluegill and baby bass around the shallow cover. Not to mention the frogs on the shore that occasionally make their way into the water. Thats what they are after. Don't be afraid of the extremely shallow water. I learned back east that there is no water too shallow for a bass. I have had them almost jump on the shore to eat my frog before.

Of course, this only applies to the warmer months. In the winter, the big fish are still shallow, for the most part, but it takes some sun and some warm rocks to put them back in the cuts. Thats rare. I'm sure everyone reading this knows that in the winter, you need to throw the Slammer or some other trout bait. As long as your lakes have trout. Might as well throw the 12" because, if its going to eat the 9", its going to be more interested in the 12".

Just my 2 cents on what to do for big fish in the warmer months. I still think that besides the spawn, winter is the best for fish that are 10+. But for fish in the 5-10 lb range, try the shallows!!

Nice observations Cam!! I think your point about large bass caring more about being near a significant food source is more important that the proximity to deeper water.
I had an interesting converstion with a friend last year about figuring out where to go for dinner. The conversation quickly turned to fishing. The question that arose was "If you were going out to dinner, would you go where a skinny man told you to go, or where a fat man told you to go?" Obviously the fat man has more experience in dining and would then know where the best food could be found.(Just an observation, not a slam against large people) While relating that in fishing to the various sizes of schooling tuna, we concluded that fish who want to be successful feeders should try to follow and hang out with the bigger fish who know where feeding is best. Big fish spots can be good for generations of fish.
Another interesting comparison I like to make is to the nature program that shows large crocodiles slamming wildebeasts as they cross a river. The migrating wildebeasts only cross this river once a year, but every year there are huge crocs there ready to ambush them. I can only assume that these crocodiles have learned from years of experience to be at the same spot at the same time each year. This is a one-time feeding opportunity that will help them to sustain themselves through the rest of the year. Bass must have the same experiences whether it's a crayfish hatch, trout plant, or whatever. The experienced fish know where to be in order to get fed.
The "book" that speaks in length about bass wanting to be in close proximity to deeper water is based on a few key assumptions. That these bass live on a body of water that fluctuates dramatically, that the bass' food source is also effected by the water dropping, and that bass are the apex predator of that body of water. The rules would then change if all of these conditions are not the case. If a body of water does not have key structure leading the the bottom of the lake, if the water does not fluctuate dramatically, or if the primary food source strictly relates to shoreline cover you must take that into consideration. In many of our lakes where stripers are the apex predator, bass will position themselves differently. For example, if stripers are pounding trout after a plant, many of these trout will seek shallow cover to offer shelter. Bass who know what is going on will be positioned shallow to pick off these vulnerable trout, letting the stripers do the work of positioning their food for them. A successful bass will then remember his feeding opportunities and do the same program until that strategy is unsuccessful. Even lakes without striper will have the same scenario as big bass lie in wait and let medium size bass push food to them.
The bottom line is that to understand big bass, you must first understand the feeding conditions needed to grow that bass. If there are more opportunities to feed shallow or deep. When water fluctuation or temperature will significantly reposition a bass' food source. What seasonal opportunities are present, and where will bass make the most of those opportunities. Whenever you catch a big bass, make specific notes on location, conditions and season. Chances are if one large bass felt the need to be in a location, another will find the same location beneficial in the future.