Fish, I think we are basically agreeing with each other but not understanding that we are. First of all, I was refering to shiners here in FL. Shiners are just absolutely deadly in these FL lakes. Many times you can be fishing the same spot as shiner fishermen and not catch a fish over 2 lbs while the shiner fishermen are catching 8 lber after 8 lber. It sounds like these are two different live bait situations. From what I understand, artificials seem to outproduce live bait over there for you because you are fishing for trout eaters or bedding fish? This is just a total guess, but this sounds like it would explain why the artificials outfish the livebait. But live bait would beat artificals if you were allowed to fish live trout, right? These florida bass LOVE shiners probably as much as those cali fish love trout. Just a thought. But the bottom line is that different kinds of live bait are more effective in different places. The main point I was trying to make is that Shiners seem to produce average joe's alot of big fish while seemingly better fishermen can't get a fish over 5 lbs with artificials.

It seems that there are exceptions to everything regarding bass fishing. And I completely understand that live bait can get beat by artificials under the right conditions. Again, I think we have been agreeing vaguely the whole time:-)!