When i think of the MS slammer I think of ROB!
Can you tell me your size and brand of hooks for the 9 and 12 inch??
I love the owner 36s but was wondering if you mess with the size?
Thanks

I followed Rob's advice for these baits and have been using 2/0 bronze round bend Gammies for the 9 and 12 inch. They've worked flawlessly for the last 10 years. The gammies with the needle point, small barbs and thin wire tend to get stuck all over the fishes face and it's extremely difficult for the fish to get away. I use the same hooks for the 7 inch version, but a size or two smaller (1/0=>1 front=>back, or was it 1=>2, can't remember).

We use these hooks for triple trout, too. And many (most?) other hard baits, where you're not jackpoling the fish into the boat. Soft baits get the heavy wire trebles.

Just don't use the thin wire hooks for stripers. I say this because I mostly use the 12 inch just for striper fishing these days. Put on some 3-4x strong trebles of your choice for those guys.

Thanks Nico
I had no idea you were using 2/0 size hooks, seems huge for that bait but that's why i wanted to ask. I tried it last night with no takers but did have the hooks get stuck on themselves a couple times, I was throwing the 9 inch.

What Nico said.

As you found out you can get hook tangling on the 9 inch with 2/0 hooks. It's a tradeoff on hookup ratio vs. the occasional hook tangle. You can adjust your cast to lessen hook tangling. A smooth cast down wind that keeps the bait straight during the cast works well. Casting upwind will get you more tangling.

I did watch in horror one night when a teener ate Nico's bait and didn't get hooked because the hooks were tangled x( That was a 7 inch bait if I remember right and I'm thinking 1/0 hooks. That bass was ... huge.

On the other hand we've both caught many large bass using the 9 inch with 2/0 gammies with a better than average conversion ratio of fish hooked to landed :) When they smush it, just reel and sweep back to the side. You'll get most of your bites.

I own many hundreds of swimbaits and to this day absolutely none of them get bit better at night than my Slammers. Plus it's super duper fun!

I love the slammer for night as well! It was the first swimbait i ever bought many years ago throwing it on a saltwater stick with a small Penn international, those were the days! I just picked up a couple more and wanted to start that slammer feeling all over again! Can you guys hook me up with the way you like your joints??? I realize it's a odd question but i have had about a dozen slammers and to me some have "IT" and some just don't.... I wish i had them all in front of me but i have pasted them down and hooked up family members that live out of state. Sooo first is the cut of the joint all the joints seem different because of that homemade style and also the length of the eye screws for joint movement?? Is there anything you look for? I start off by swimming them and look at the action and sound and go from there but was interested in your guys input! Thanks

Also, why the Gammies over Owner?? i love the 36's and wondered if i'm missing something??? i wanted to try the Gammies after Nico's post but Warehouse doesn't have the large sizes??? I did try the long shank magic eyes on one of my wider swimbaits and had great success with the hook ups but is there a major differences in the owner 36's and the gammie bronzers??

Why Gammie v. Owner. It's kind of hard to quantify. I guess just the experience of trying both quite a bit and finding that gammie works better for me?

Maybe it's the slightly larger barb on the gammie hook. Maybe it's the weight of the hook and how it rides on the bait. Hooks very much affect lure action. Maybe it's the length from the tip of the hook to the barb.

I'm kinda speculating on those things. When you can't answer why, sometimes you just accept things :) I focus mainly on the end result which is getting bit and landing the bass. The 2/0 gammie bronze hook is a great hook for that.

Maybe someone will make a better hook at some point. I sure hope so.

You asked about the joints. I pay more attention to the buoyancy of the lure than the joints. These days I'm fishing slammer on the surface most of the time. So floating baits made from lighter hunks of wood are good in my book.

If I have time later I'll take a pic of my baits so you can see the joints. For sure my 2 super money all time favorite baits do have an irregular joint. A lot of them do.

My all white 9 inch bait which I would rate as money, but not super duper money has a joint that is just a little off. Not too irregular. It likes to run just a little subsurface and gets bit well on a faster wind.

Each Slammer will have some personality to it. As the years go by I think your brain gets in tune with the right retrieve for each lure. The cadence and diving depth and such. When you have a true money bait and you've tuned in to the right speed for it, that's when fishing just gets to be so much fun :)

Lots of reasons why I prefer the gammies over a hook like the st-36:

* The Owner hook is very heavy hook. It weights the slammer down and the action is deadened.
* Heavy wire hooks are more susceptible to dulling. They dull faster and a dull heavy wire hooks is less likely to stick a fish than a dull light wire. They're also *much* harder to sharpen.
* I (personally) don't like beaked hooks for hard baits
* The light wire bronze finish is less spooky than the shiny black
* And to repeat what I said earlier: light wire small barb hooks do a better job of hooking fish when you're not really setting the hook much. Slammer bites should be handled like crankbait bites, with a soft rod and a soft hookset.

As far as baits go, I've been extremely happy with the newer baits I've purchased over the last few years. I like shorter, fatter, floaty slammers. A lot of the new 7 inch baits have been perfect in this regard, and have become my new favorite slammers.

>Lots of reasons why I prefer the gammies over a hook like the
>st-36:
>
> * The Owner hook is very heavy hook. It weights the slammer
>down and the action is deadened.
> * Heavy wire hooks are more susceptible to dulling. They dull
>faster and a dull heavy wire hooks is less likely to stick a
>fish than a dull light wire. They're also *much* harder to
>sharpen.
> * I (personally) don't like beaked hooks for hard baits
> * The light wire bronze finish is less spooky than the shiny
>black
> * And to repeat what I said earlier: light wire small barb
>hooks do a better job of hooking fish when you're not really
>setting the hook much. Slammer bites should be handled like
>crankbait bites, with a soft rod and a soft hookset.
>
>As far as baits go, I've been extremely happy with the newer
>baits I've purchased over the last few years. I like shorter,
>fatter, floaty slammers. A lot of the new 7 inch baits have
>been perfect in this regard, and have become my new favorite
>slammers.

I agree completely, but i think you meant ST-41, the ST 36 is a perfect bend 1X strong bitchin hook (http://www.outdoorproshop.com/Owner-Super-Needle-Point-Treble-ST-36-p/owner_needle-point-treble-st36.htm) .... I am considered a "Slammer Whore" by my peers. I find the owner ST-41 (2X cutting beaked point I believe you are referring to) to be the WORST style of treble hook for fish like stripers or largemouth... I used them for a year when they came out cause they looked evil, and my hookup percentage fell off dramatically... or should I say, landed fish fell off. You get the nice weighty hook-up, then the fish comes off very quick. The fish you land will often have tears from where the hook was originally planted, tore out, then finally the hook regrabbed just barely through the skin of the jaw. The hooks tear their way out.. anyone with time on the water that catches fish knows this. Beaked point hooks are OK for fish that BITE their prey vs. sucking it in, like wahoo or trout, but I still prefer a non-beaked hook in all applications. None of my friends that fish alot like this hook. A "perfect bend" style hook will hookup MUCH better, and will not tear out as easily if your technique is good.

I landed a 29.5# striper one time that choked a super spook with some 41s on there (back in the day when I fished micro baits), and you could see deep cuts from where it was hooked deep in the roof of the mouth, then the hook tore out and finally re-grabbed in the jaw (luckily, I think half the time it just pops out of the mouth).

PARTICULARLY SO with a big plug where the fish is unlikely to choke it, where you'll have a hook in the corner of the jaw and one in the cheek typically.

They are also way more likely to cut your line if the fish eats it such that your line ends up around one of the hooks, that's happened to me too with the horrible POS ST-41s.

They are popular with certain bait makers because they look mean and they don't scar up the baits as quickly (for the same reason they don't hook fish as well), but I like to land 90%+ of my good bites so I steer clear of the crap hooks. I have a box full of the beaked point owners I've removed from baits and replaced with the needle point ST 36 or 56.

Normally I would never state something like this publicly, as I am a competitive and secretive bastard, but I am sick and tired of seeing these garbage beaked point hooks tear up fish and cause angler heart-ache! I'm sure someone will jump on me and say "hey I landed this fish on the ST-41" , but to that I say - Exceptions don't prove the rule! It's not about what your landing, it's about what you're not landing!

Marcus

I guess it depends on which version of the ST-36 you're talking about. The stinger version is not light wire:

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Owner_Stinger_Treble_Hook_Black_Chrome_ST-36/descpage-OST36BC.html

The lighter wire version you're talking about are pretty good. They certainly do a great job of hooking and landing fish. I still find they dull easier and are more difficult to sharpen than the gammies, but not a bad hook at all.

That image at tacklewarehouse is an error, the 36 is a 1X wire with a super needle point (the description is correct but the photo is not). That said the 36 is a heavier wire than the referenced gamakatsu....both are too light for striper fishing IMO, but I like the 36 in bigger sizes for the green bass.

What hooks do you prefer for striper plugs? I've tried a few, but haven't found a favorite yet in the #1-2/0 size range.

The ST-56 in 1/0 is my favorite for even large plugs for stripers. If they made it in 2/0 and 3/0 I'd probably like them. I use the #1 and #2 for small 5-7" plugs, but the #2 is sketchy for big ones particularly so if your using braid. I feel the 4X hooks are too thick (hard on the fishes mouth/face) and stronger than necessary. They open a big hole (like a log splitter) and the hook can fall out if you make a mistake when fighting the fish. You will bend a 56 occasionally but not so far you'll lose the fish. I like the stiffness of the 56, it wants to penetrate vs. flexing and just drills them! Also has a very durable point and is easily sharpened using a traditional triangulated chisel point style that the fly fisherman used to get a good hookset on tarpon back in the day when lines were rubber bands and rods were noodles.

The new ST-46 is identical to the 56 as far as I can tell, but the tinning makes them slightly thicker vs. the black chrome finish. It comes in a 2/0 and 3/0 but the wire is a little thick for my taste.

Cool, I'm almost getting excited about fall striper fishing now :-)

I'm starting to hope someone will hijack this thread and start posting pictures of giant night bass on the Slammer :) Just wanted to say that out loud.

I wonder who here was the most recent person to catch a nice fish on a slammer?

I like to look at it like this. A super sharp thin wired hook buried to the bone is less likely to straighten out than a thick wired hook that barely gets past the barb. It is all about leverage.

Also a hook with a super wide gap is going to straighten out easier than one with a smaller gap. I think that is why the 1/0 st56 is such a nice hook. I just wish owner would make the shanks longer on the both the ST56 and ST36 (length between the eye and the bend of their trebbles). They are too short in my opinion.

I really liked the Gami Magic eyes for this reason, however they don't hold up well to stripers and braid.

On the plugs that I am making, I have been using VMC permasteel 4x and I feel they are a nice trade off between strength, wire thickness, sharpness, and durability.

Nufo

Here's the joints on my best 3 baits (in order). Note the rust factor as well. I spray with WD-40 every few years to keep it under control, but a little rust is great. Like a squeaky buzzbait. It gets nibbles.

http://www.calfishing.com/files/Images/daily_reports/2011_08_24_joints/j1.jpg

http://www.calfishing.com/files/Images/daily_reports/2011_08_24_joints/j2.jpg

http://www.calfishing.com/files/Images/daily_reports/2011_08_24_joints/j3.jpg

The Slammer box always resides close to the top :)

http://www.calfishing.com/files/Images/daily_reports/2011_08_24_joints/hello.jpg

That black bait front eye screw looks tweaked, and that's why those baits rule....everyone has a mind of it's own and you have to figure them all out. Very cool to show the baits Rob thanks! I got one last night about 6 or soo?? no scale, but a super fun fish! I tried to post the pic but i guess the photo was to big in size ?? Wouldn't let me.. Thanks to all for the great info. I totally agree with the owner 36's love those hooks and HATE the 41 x2 owners, magic eyes have done me well with the longer shanks and want to try the gammies for sure to see if the baits run different and see if my hook ups go up!

This one has a crooked joint and mad Mojo

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/mikepro75/IMG_3071-1.jpg

Lets so those chewed up slammers!

here was it's first fish

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/mikepro75/slammerbass2.jpg

And one of it's biggest (gill hooked and tasted delicious!)

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/mikepro75/HUNTERMESTRIPER-1.jpg

Love slammers