I like to think that some of the best minds in fishing visit this site. I've been wracking my brain for creative solutions to the mussel problem, but one brain by itself can only get so far.

If 100 people replied to this thread with ideas on how to solve the mussel problem, so that we can continue to fish the lakes in California, we might come up with something good.

So I propose a brainstorming session. No idea is a bad idea. Bring them all, and let's see what happens.

Here's a few that come to my mind, however flawed they may be. I offer them in hopes of triggering your thoughts.

* Close every single body of water in the state to boating for 6 months. Then check every body of water for mussels. Lakes that have mussels remain closed. Lakes that don't remain open.

* Install boat hoists and cleaning stations at every lake. The hoist lifts the boat off the trailer, the cleaning station takes care of the rest. Inspect before and after cleaning.

* Initiate a boat sharing program where bass fishermen operate pools of rental bass boats at the lake so that boats do not have to be transported over land.

* Create secure, dry, boat storage areas with arrival inspections. Once a boat is stored at one of these approved facilities for enough days for all mussels to die due to dryness, the boat is issued a pass good for one lake entry at any lake.

* Lobby the water districts to suck it up and deal with infestation. Let people boat and fish like always. Pass along any mussel removal costs to the water users.

In addition, offer mussel cleaning certification courses at City Colleges around the state. Divers could be trained in removal procedures and equipment. Water districts could then hire them, perhaps at lower wages due to the increase in workers supplied.

* Build mussel treatment facilities adjacent to pump in/out locations on the lakes. This would incur a high fixed cost initially, but solve water pumping issues in perpetuity.


Please take 10 minutes out of your day to reply to this thread.

at this point it seems inevitable that all the lake will end up with the mussles. Its just a matter of time. The water people like to say the mussels eat the plankton and that upsets the food chain all the way up to the might bass. Funny how fishing has improved where the mussles have now infested. The water people dont care about the fish. They care about the water and the equipment used to move the water. Thats why they hate the mussles.
If the lakes that they are planning on clossing already had the mussels in them, then there would be no need to close them. They will all eventualy get them anyways so if they all had them now then the water people would have to figure out ways to clean ther pumps instead of blaming the bass boats.
Obvious answers are Find some natural predators--Gobies crayfish and other types of fish and stock them into a smaller "test" lake.
Water companies need to figure out a way to maintain theie pipes and pumps and leave the fisherman alone. Maybe coat them with something?

www.mattlures.com

Clean lake Coalition. This is not my Idea but would work for some of us who do not fish infected lakes. Ever see the seal on a shipping container, it is a metal band that must be broken to remove. You go through the bow eye and part of the trailer that can not be removed by the winch. Only clean lakes can put them on and when you leave the lake a new one is applied. I heard one of the board members got loud with the DFG guy who was trying to suggest a wash station. At first I thought fishermen were over acting when I read there posts on other sites. I don't feel that way any more I think they want the fishermen gone as much as possible and are enviromaniacs. People like that don't think rationally, and dont put people first it does'nt bother them that we are losing another freedom.

Income tax goes to the fed reserve which is a private bank owned by some of the world bankers. This may not seem to fit with this topic but read the 16th amendment to the constitution and investigate the federal reserve and you will know this is true. Power corrupts most of the time and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When you understand this you can realize that those dollars will not help us here. We are on our own to finance whatever happens. California is in debt and we need to think economically. We will have to fund this there will be no tax money for it I guarantee this. I now this is hard to beleive but I have made the last 10 years of my life a search for polital and historical truths and you will not find the truth on TV most of the time, not if it is something really important.

So before you react turn off the TV and turn on your computer and google search the truth. This is not a real difficult problem to solve you could drill wells around an infected lake to pump the water to the system. I dont think those musells are going to make that trip. Look on line at some of the money that has been spent at infected lakes on a yearly basis. A 1 shot purchase of some wells would protect the municipal water distribution system or the discharge area could be flushed with hot water monthly and the cost is a boiler and the fuel from consumption.

Peaceful but pissed
Rich

California has one of the largest water delivery system in the world! In my opinion the folks running this system are crazy scared right now about the fiscal impact of the mussels on this system and don't have a clue what to do about it yet.
I don't think that there is any concern over waterways in the state that are not connected to this system except maybe that mussels may spread to the system from them.

Water is huge money in CA. There are many billions at stake here for the agencies that transport and deliver the water to where ever it goes.


There are two ways of going about finding a solution.
1. Try to stop the invasion before it spreads.
2. Get things in order now to deal with the inevitable invasion.

#1 is how govt agencies are trying to solve the problem today. Knee jerk reactions like closing lakes, banning boats, etc. is probably not going to halt the spread especially if migratory waterfowl can transport the larvae like I have read. If this is the case then the spread of mussels is inevitable.

#2 is most likely where we will end up so how to deal with the problem.

I wouldn't have a clue where to start with this but I do have some questions that might point towards a possible solution.

I know PGE runs some power plants on the coast that use salt water for their cooling. So how do they deal with intrusive mussels, barnacles, etc in their cooling water intakes?

How are agencies in the great lakes area dealing with it?

How do desalination plants deal with the problems of intrusion in their salt water intakes?

Waste treatment plants use high intensity UV light to treat water and kill bacteria. Could this have an impact on the mussels?
What about chlorine treatments?

Natural predators have been mentioned already and are another possible solution providing that agency officials have done their homework and don't introduce another problem.

I don't think that there will be any one answer to a solution but a combination of tactics to keep things in control.

MT

Mitch,

I work a desal plant for GE Water out at Diablo Power Plant on the central coast. To answer a couple of those questions ...

"I know PGE runs some power plants on the coast that use salt water for their cooling. So how do they deal with intrusive mussels, barnacles, etc in their cooling water intakes? "
"How do desalination plants deal with the problems of intrusion in their salt water intakes?"

Along with our (GE's) feed lines, PG&E uses bi-yearly "Heat treatment" on the lines. Pre Heating fresh water then running it through the lines. PG&E also uses "labor" to go into the large intakes to scrape barnacles. I am affraid these solutions would not do a lake much good.

I am one that believes that inspection and cleaning stations are a must. Also, I think it is a Federal problem that should be researched fully. It sounds like the answer will be introducing a creature that can wipe out the mussels with out causing more harm to our great resources.

Bryan

To fish is to live!

Does Catch and Release only kill the larva or can it kill the mature mussels too? If it does, dump barges full of the stuff into the areas where the mussels are growing.

Jake J

http://calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/jakej/

1-
make it required to pull plug, drain livewells and dry boat at a designated station at the exit of the launch facility where the kiosk attendant will see it. Dont let any boat leave without doing so. This could be done simply by moving the boat prep area to the exit of parking lots.

2-
Make a dip pool where each boat can back in and sterilize the hull.

3-
Study lakes that have already had this exotic species invade. Learn from them, learn how to adjust.

Ryan Thoni


If people concentrated on the important things in life there would be a shortage of fishing poles.
~Doug Larson

Total brainstorm from a not very well informed guy:

Leverage 2 things, that America has a competitive advantage in:

1: Technology
2: Higher Education/Research

There has got to be a way to leverage science and technology to come up with a way to genetically alter the mussels so they can't reproduce or eat or attach themselves to pipes or something like that. Or, as Matt said, create a surface they can't attach themselves to on the pipes or intakes. Or create something that when they filter feed on it, it kills them or otherwise harms them, but doesn't affect anything else in the lake.

Science and technology should be leveraged to find a safe way to kill or otherwise mitigate the mussels from growing, eating, reproducing or living comfortably. That would solve this. Not easy to do, but I mean, we seem to be good at making things extinct and go away with our capitalistic ways. I would think we could erradicate something pretty easily.

One other thought:
Do they taste good? Is there a market for selling any part of them? Can they make cat or dog food? Can you make vitamins out of the shells? If there is a use or by product, someone would likely pay to harvest these things for some use...

MP

Research, Research Research.

State should do whatever it takes to fund research into finding the best way to solve problem. With research, that would enable the solution to be the most productive. Stating the obvious here obviously. Others have made seemingly good points.

http://www.calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/bigreenjobass/

All great ideas guys and most of them have been posted before on WB and have been told to the board at one of their meetings. Where is the money going to come from to research this the state is saying it is broke. If you want to know how broke you can get a copy of the Comprehensive annual financial report as every state puts them out and they usually go to the major corporations in that state. Their are solutions Cornell University has studied this issue more than anyone I have found yet go to

www.utilities.cornell.edu/utl_lsceis_mussels.html

Personally my money will be going to the attorney as my friend owns the local tackle shop and even though he is at Fred Hall right now I know this will end up in litigation.

A rumor has started that someone wants to build homes around the lake and turn it into a private lake. I know nothing of the validity of that and was under the impression that the land around the lake belonged to the lake so it could protect the watershed but I am not absolutely sure about that either.

Life was awesome for a while I put in a lot of hard work that paid off in a great FD job and an old Ranger boat that I worked very hard on to get nice with 6 sqft of hanging swimbait storage and thousands in swimbaits to fish Casitas mon > thu. I had it all guys but now I have to go to Piru about an hour away. Thats OK at least there is still a lake to fish for now it just doesnt have fat Florida strain trout fed bass in it. For a recreational fisherman I was living the dream.

Peace
Rich

The problem I hear about is that these things clog pipes. I also hear that they filter plankton out of lakes and ruin the fishery. Lets see Havasu has them and so does Mead. The fish are still surviving and growing at both places to my knowledge. Maybe they are over reacting to this like they did with the Zebra mussels on the Great Lakes. Now we realize that they actually cleaned up the water and did not ruin the fishery.

Rob closing all of the lakes for 6 monhts will kill the tackle stores that are local. No one would spend money because there would be no fishing on these lakes. I would not be in favor for this.

They can figure out something that will kill them I would imagine. Matt said it best. We have the intelligence and the resources to take care of this problem. We know that certain livewell additives kill the larvae right? Does Blue Stoning kill the mussles? Maybe that is an option that will dust these things like the additive.


The pipes could be coated or flushed with an additive. There has to be something that they cannot bond to. Then again if the blue stone type deal works then there would be no need to coat the pipes or flush them.

The wide spread panic is a little rediculous. Casitas is closed now, Cachuma is next and there is word of DV too. When will it stop? Is there significant research to the claims right now? Do they know that boats are truly spreading mussel terror across California? Could it be water coming into certain lakes from the Colorado River? Could the larvea be on the webbed feet of ducks that travel from one body of water to another? These are all things that need to be addressed. I just do not think there is enough reasearch at this point to close all the lakes. I am fine with inspections, cleaning stations or whatever they need to do other than closing lakes down. Closing lakes hurts the fising industry in a negative way.

I am coming to understand the situation more and more. There were no closures at infected lakes and the state or feds might have been able to do that and protect other water sources. Once a lake is infected it needs as much money as possible to combat the problem and they certainly do not want to close. The lakes that are closing now are doing so to protect those lakes and also to make a statement to the government that they need to get involved. They do not want to end up infested and trying to mitigate the situation alone. This is a political move to try to get state or fed help or both.

My guess would be it was a hot potato issue and no one wanted to address it for lack of money to deal with it. The other issue to consider is that if you recognize and act then you sort of own and become responsible for it, you have set a precedence, not to mention then people can point their finger at you for blame. I believe that is why no government orginazations wanted to touch this one.

Birds do transfer the mussel and there are numerous ways to deal with maintaining pipes when they are found. hot water, coatings, ultraviolet light, bleach, chlorine and salt water to name a few. and all the others that can be found at the website in my above post.

This is going to be a big thing for a long time. I only wish the state had the funds to deal with it. unfortunately it is all about cutbacks right now. We are going to need a non profit type entity set up that can take funds, hire staff and run with the ball. I believe it is in the works and we will be learning more shortly.

Peace
Rich

Well... It was a sad day for me. I have had a lot of conversations with various people within the industry as well as anglers that fish the lake. It seems that most of the suggestions mentioned are ones that I have thought about. In my opinion... the one thing that needs to be done is to research this further. Some say they can be transmitted through waterfowl... some say they can't. Some say that it takes 4 days to kill the mussels out of a moist environment, some say 7. It seems like there are no definitive facts about these things and the California DFG needs to step up and research this. Once they learn more about them... more plans can be put in place.

Some talked about a hot bath / steam cleaning... That would be great but it doesn't reach all of the places (ie. between the bunks and the boat when it's on the trailor). It also will peel anyones boat wrap off with the heat causing the $3000 investment to be ruined. One thing that I would like to see is actual divers at all the lakes to determine if they are in fact in there or not.

Rob said it perfectly... the first domino has tumbled. There are many others that are going to fall right behind it.

Just remember guys, It is always easer to lose something then to get it back. Once they close a lake. Good luck getting it back. There are those people out there who do not like us catching fish or being on the lakes. I am sure there are people like that behind the push of all this. They don't like us anyway and have lots of money to back them and push it. This is a open door for them to walk in and shut it on us and THEY WILL, They Have (money talks). If they were all fisherman it would not have happened at all. Other then that it will take more work and new jobs to keep them under control it seems (if needed). It sounds like lakes are doing far better with mussels in them so far. As for negative impact on a lake, not seeing that yet. The only thing impacted so far is US, we that use the lakes. My lakes are not closed around me but it sure makes me MAD that my friends lakes are. To close all lakes for any time would be the end. Then you would have a vigilante mussel placement I bet.

Don.

http://calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/bassindon69/basspics/

Nothing like fishing!

Some interesting ideas here. I hope more will come to mind as we deal with more restrictions and closures. Thank you for your time and energy to post these.

I really believe that the solutions to the mussel issues are not going to come from the people who wish to close the lakes - they are going to come from the users of the lakes like fishermen and recreational boaters, and other individuals who have a vested interest in keeping the lakes open.

offduty's post today shows this clearly. Larry Elshere (fisherman) and ranger Rob (has a vested interest in keeping the lake open) work together to come up with the locking idea, with 10 day quarantine. This may not sound like a great solution because it involves a 10 day wait, and some hassle with the seals, but it beats the heck out of not fishing at all. Even more important, the logic of this idea is very hard to argue with, so if the lake managers refuse it, it makes them appear unreasonable.

Now we are getting some where.

Unfournately, I think its inevitable that most state water project lakes will end up infected.California has ones of the world's longest aqueducts that runs all over the state. If they get in there, I figure the pumps and gates won't be a real big deal for them to pass. If they can pass across the Great Lakes from interconnecting canals, our Aqueduct wouldn't appear to pose a block to their spread. But we should still take action. Quarantine needs to taken up for lakes not infected, but I figure its only a matter of time before the mussels will hit watersheds that recieve any type of water from state systems. For lakes that are infected, inspection systems should be placed at the exits, and washing systems at the ramps. Perhaps complete boat hoists, and wash stations, using very hot water or some type of chemical wash thats can kill mussel larva. Then you follow the washes with a hot drying machine, and inspect the boat before it leaves the lake gates.

Bass + Fisherman= BAASS ADDICTT!!!