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swimbait | Mon Jul-24-06 07:38 PM |
Charter member
9890 posts
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#16357, "Great mysteries of the color red"
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So I was at the Bass-n-Tubes delta open the other day chatting it up with swampy dave, IFISH, fishcat, Mitch and the gang. A very important topic of conversation came up as we were shooting the breeze. Dave brought it up I think because he had a reel spooled up with Cajun Red line. If you're familiar with Cajun line their marketing informs the angler that red is the first color to disappear underwater and because of that, Cajun red line starts to 'disappear' to the fish in as little as 3 feet of water. This sounds good no? We all want invisible line.
So the next point brought up was one of my favorites, the red hook. The bloody lures are still multiplying out there and it seems like half of what you see now has a red hook in it. Everywhere I am reading how I need to use red hooks because they look like blood!
But wait, I'm confused... According to the folks at Cajun line, red can 'disappear' in as little as 3 feet of water. So if you are using red hooks and fishing deep, is your hook becoming invisible? Invisible hooks sound great to me but I thought the whole point of using a red hook was the blood, you know... like the fish sees the lure and mistakes the hook for... blood. Yeah that makes sense because so many things underwater are always bleeding all the damn time because fish blood only coagulates underwater almost immediately and ... oh hell my brain hurts.
So a few questions that come up in this critical discussion...
If red 'disappears' underwater, does fish blood disappear underwater also?
Can fish see their own blood?
Is a red snapper invisible?
How come bass didn't adapt to turn red so that they could be invisible?
How come no freshwater game fish are red?
If I wear a red wetsuit, can I hide from sharks?
Your input is welcome :) This is important!
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RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
Bassin,
Jul 24th 2006, #1
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
Slough Crew,
Jul 24th 2006, #2
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
Jeff,
Jul 25th 2006, #3
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
nathan,
Jul 25th 2006, #4
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
calicokid,
Jul 25th 2006, #5
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
Lake,
Jul 25th 2006, #6
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
MountainBass,
Jul 25th 2006, #7
Guys, you've got it all wrong.,
Bigreenjobass,
Jul 25th 2006, #8
RE: Guys, you've got it all wrong.,
dockboy,
Jul 25th 2006, #9
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
MountainBass,
Jul 26th 2006, #10
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
SLM,
Jul 26th 2006, #11
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
nathan,
Jul 26th 2006, #12
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
magmaster,
Jul 26th 2006, #13
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
Omnipotent_1,
Jul 27th 2006, #14
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
swimbait,
Jul 27th 2006, #15
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
nathan,
Jul 28th 2006, #16
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
rockstar,
Jul 29th 2006, #17
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
Bigreenjobass,
Jul 29th 2006, #18
RE: Great mysteries of the color red,
alvo69,
Aug 01st 2006, #19
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Bassin | Mon Jul-24-06 08:45 PM |
Member since Feb 18th 2003
1214 posts
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#16358, "RE: Great mysteries of the color red"
In response to Reply # 0
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I have read your take on the red hook thing before, you bring up some great points. Its funny how so many swear by adding a red hook to thier lures. Example: Replacing the center or front hook on certain jerk baits, Said by KVD. So if red disapears, then how does one explain the red flake in plastics? I know it works, on particular fisheries. The Beaver "420", Robo worm: ArronsMagic or Ox blood with red flake. Senko Watermelon red flake. These can be very affective. If red disapeared then way the red flake?
Good topic Rob.
Bryan To fish is to live!
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Slough Crew | Mon Jul-24-06 08:47 PM |
Member since Jan 22nd 2006
177 posts
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#16359, "RE: Great mysteries of the color red"
In response to Reply # 0
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That is funny Rob, "Is a red snapper invisible?". Maybe the Cajun line disapears because mono is somewhat transparent in nature and with the line being red it is more invisible than the more common colors of mono. Maybe it's just a gimmic to sell more line?? I have no idea but you do bring up some valid questions....
Why haven't shad and other bait fish adapted and become red.
What does a trout with a nice red gill plate and a red stripe look like to a bass?
Bass must find and eat most crawdads by vibrations because they could surely never see the red ones...
Jake J
http://calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/jakej/
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dockboy | Tue Jul-25-06 07:39 PM |
Member since Jun 09th 2005
205 posts
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#16366, "RE: Guys, you've got it all wrong."
In response to Reply # 8
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I posted on this topic last time Rob brought it up and it was a good, informative topic. I use red trebles on topwaters, shallow cranks, and have some red trailers on my spinnerbaits. I think you''ll lose "the red advantage" in deeper water not because they're invisible. I just think they turn a darker, much less flahy red. I think fish share a lot common things with us as far as vision goes but I think they have a harder time seeing more subtle changes of color such as the diiference between blacks and darker reds. Thus a fish would probably smell fish blood (yes, even bass) in deeper waters faster than it would recognize what exact color it is. But I shallow water I think red stands out better and starts that wire in the fish's brain that says "Wounded prey!" :9
But really, I'll use red to stand out more when sight fishing bed fish too. And I can't deny the effectiveness of red flake. I mean, the CA 420 Beaver is probably the most consistently best color on my local lake! And the oxblood red flake Robo ,man, unstoppable at times. Could be that in weedy lake craws can take on more of a reddish color...who knows! And I've seen bass only hit the red hook on a topwater too. Whatever, as long as they work I'll use red hooks in some situations. Bass + Fisherman= BAASS ADDICTT!!!
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MountainBass | Wed Jul-26-06 07:19 AM |
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
973 posts
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#16367, "RE: Great mysteries of the color red"
In response to Reply # 0
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Time to refer to my fish bible: "The life story of a fish: his manners and morals"
in the chapter about senses, subsection sight: "Can fish tell color? There have been more experiments on this than anyother phase of the fish's vision. The answer is yes, as least in so far as the fisherman is concerned.
They conducted experiments with LMB in seperate, all white tanks. and fed them through different colored pipes. Some colors giving it a shock, and some giving it food. The result was that it learned over time and stopped going to the shocking color, even when there was no shock, and still went to the feeding color even when there was no food.
but heres and interesting side note of the experiment:
"One of the first findings was that the untrained black bass, before conditioning had started, had a strong prefrence for red over all other colors." "yellow was the next favorable"
hmmm theres something neat. doesnt exactly answer the question, and of course tanks are shallow and are full of clear waer, but an interesting note.
results: "In the end, the expirements proved that bass could tell red from any other color with the xeption of violet and almost equally sure on yellow. greens and blues were the hardest for him to distinguish from each other and from black. Brightness proved to play no part, for not only was the bass able to tell the training red from any other shades of grey, but if he were offered some other shade of red, he would chose that over the greys.
after putting all of the color experiments togather in this book, they concluded that bass see's (colorwise) almost the same as we would if we were wearing a yellowish tinted pair of glasses.
just some interesting stuff for ya'll Ryan Thoni
If people concentrated on the important things in life there would be a shortage of fishing poles. ~Doug Larson
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Omnipotent_1 | Thu Jul-27-06 03:25 PM |
Member since Jul 27th 2006
1 posts
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#16371, "RE: Great mysteries of the color red"
In response to Reply # 0
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There is a scientific explanation for all this but I'll try to keep it simple.
Our eyes are sensitive to light which lies in a very small region of the electromagnetic spectrum labeled "visible light". This "visible light" corresponds to a wavelength range of 400 - 700 nanometers (nm) and a color range of violet through red. The human eye is not capable of "seeing" radiation with wavelengths outside the visible spectrum. The visible colors from shortest to longest wavelength are: violet, blue, green, yellow, orange, and red. Ultraviolet radiation has a shorter wavelength than the visible violet light. Infrared radiation has a longer wavelength than visible red light. The white light is a mixture of the colors of the visible spectrum. Black is a total absence of light.
Ya still with me? OK then.
Red light has longer a wavelength and less energy than violet light. This is the reason that the color red is the first color to fade away under water. The color red will eventually fade to black as you get deeper under water and light penetration diminishes. In clear water you can see the color red at much greater depths than in dirty water. Eventually as you go deeper to where light cannot penetrate at all every color of the visible spectrum will fade to black.
Enough of that stuff my brain hurts. I'll try to answer your questions now
If red 'disappears' underwater, does fish blood disappear underwater also? > Nope, but only because it coagulates underwater almost immediately.
Can fish see their own blood? > Only when they are bleeding in shallow water.
Is a red snapper invisible? > Only to female red snappers unless they have a fat wallet and a cool car.
How come bass didn't adapt to turn red so that they could be invisible? > Hey, evolution takes a long time. Be patient.
How come no freshwater game fish are red? > What, Goldfish aren't good enough or red enough for you?
If I wear a red wetsuit, can I hide from sharks? > Ummm, no.
Hey Lake, I'm watching you }(
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swimbait | Thu Jul-27-06 03:55 PM |
Charter member
9890 posts
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#16372, "RE: Great mysteries of the color red"
In response to Reply # 0
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I'm enjoying all of your responses, thankyou :)
My post was pretty tounge in cheek because I think a lot of fishing related marketing is simply made up, but the topic of fishing seeing color has always fascinated me.
When I was in 7th grade, I set out to determine if trout could see color or not. I read some various articles and books about the topic (which were mostly over my head) and I did an experiment. The experiment went something like this...
My mom drove me down to the Fillmore fish hatchery after we talked to them on the phone. They gave me 5 rainbow trout for my experiment. We put the trout in a cooler with lots of ice as they recommended. When we got to the house, all of the trout looked to be completely dead, floating upside down.
After about 20 minutes in the tank though, they all magically came back to life (phew). The hatchery had given me a nice supply of purina trout chow so I commenced taking care of these trout in an 80 gallon tank on the side of the house.
For the experiment I would put different color ping pong balls in the water. For certain colors, I would feed them. For other colors I wouldn't feed them. I'd try to track their behavior, like if they got excited and went by the ping pong balls or not. Ok ok, it wasn't the best experiment but it was 7th grade so cut me some slack :)
The results of the experiment were inconclusive but I did learn a few things about hatchery trout. For one, they grow REALLY fast. I only had the trout a few months and they grew about 2 inches. The other thing about hatchery trout is that they are prolific waste producers, I mean if you knew how much trout pooped... you'd be shocked.
Anyway, I do believe that fish can see color. Mountainbass' book had a much better experiment than mine and things like that make me believe. I also think that lure color can be very important... sometimes. Spotted bass especially seem picky about color, but largemouth can be picky too. I'm not a huge fan of red as a lure color in general but imitating red gills with something never seem like a bad idea. My best thought about color is that that the colors a fish prefers to eat have a lot to do with what color food that fish has eaten in the recent past. Fish 'get smart' pretty quick when food is involved and by in large they're a hungry bunch.
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Jeremyfisher | Sat Jul-29-06 12:48 PM |
Member since Jul 22nd 2009
1976 posts
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#16375, "RE: Great mysteries of the color red"
In response to Reply # 17
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Wow. The instrumental values shared among fellow board members here are re-iterated throughout various posts as seen above. The real reason for biological field testing is to advance human kind farther than we ever imagined. The commercialism effect on science has regressed some people to make statements that are not necessarily true. IE Red is invisible under water. When somebody says something about a product, its always good to see if there is a motive first. The person that said that might have worked for Berkely or another fishing co. A clear and obvious motive would be to sell their red products. Do we believe everything we hear? Unforunately, all to much we do. The stuff that is on TV, all the commercials....Very rarely does somebody investigate if the commercials are respresnting the full truth. And my assumption would be that very rarely does the commercial industry represnt truth. Instead, subbing out the truth for money. In all, life is good. And I want to go fishing. Also, the systematic approach that I use to go fishing is so complicated I would crash the entire calfishing website if I was to explain it. Actually I can sum up my systematic approach like this: go with your instincts. And most importantly of all.....Don't listen to dock talk. Don't listen to anyone. I've never gotten on some amazing, big fish bite by listening to a bunch of drunk rednecks talk about fishing...I've gotten on big fish by using common sense and going with my instincts.....And, finally, I'm going fishing. Thank you.
http://www.calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/bigreenjobass/
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alvo69 | Tue Aug-01-06 07:50 PM |
Member since Jan 23rd 2006
103 posts
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#16385, "RE: Great mysteries of the color red"
In response to Reply # 18
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Dammit Mountainbass! You gave away the next big sales gimmick before I got my patents in. ...'The study learned that The Bass favored the color RED ,and "the next favored color was YELLOW!" My new line of YELLOW trebles is supposed to hit the stores by Christmas,but NOOOOOOO , now ALL the CopyCat Bait Co lures will already come with YELLOW trebles and I'll lose my shirt when no one has to upgrade from RED to YELLOW trebles when we fishermen/marketeers collectively decide that "the bass have now become conditioned to RED hooks and will no longer hit lures with the aforemention RED hooks"...and every one is scrambling to mass produce YELLOW hooks before my Boutique line of Hi-Vis YELLLLLLLOW hooks is available from Tackle Wishhouse! OK, OK ,what is the NEXT favored color AFTER Yellow????????? PLEH EM!:P x( :7 -- ALEX the YELLOW........ I much prefer it when a woman leaves me, for then I know the mistake is hers. - Charles Bukowski
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© Copyright Robert Belloni 1997-2012. All Rights Reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed without express written consent.
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