I don't know if any of you have seen the news regarding recent studies on fish and the ability for fish to feel pain. The studies that I saw on Yahoo concluded that fish do feel pain. Other studies referenced in the article conclude that fish lack the portions of the neocortex necessary to recognize pain stimuli.

At any rate, maybe its just because I went to Berkeley, but a part of me wants to do what I can to minimize harm to fish. I thought about my recent surf fishing adventures, in which I release 99% of my fish caught. I realized that I've never tried to use barbless hooks.

Does anybody use barbless hooks when fishing in the surf, either for halibut or for perch? Or, does anybody file off the barbs on their hooks? I've never done it when fishing saltwater, but the idea just occurred to me, and I was curious if anyone else does it or has tried it?

** tight lines make all my troubles go away **

The research that was done used bee venom and some sort of acid to make this determination. What a crock. There is a huge difference between hooking a fish and injecting their lips with bee venom.

Here fishy, fishy, fishy......

Clay

Yeah, that could be one of the most ridiculous, biased, irrelevant studies in the history of the world...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/907199.asp?0si=

Somebody please explain to me how acid injected into a fish's lips is equivalent to a barbless salmon egg hook. They used trout in this experiment by the way, which as we know are not the hardiest fish to begin with. The fact that the trout were even able to survive after that ordeal is a testament in itself. Might've been a better idea to test a FISH HOOK in the fish's mouth to see how they react. Hmmm, could I be the only one to think of this??? Dollars to donuts they tried it and didn't get the desired results.

I bet I could even explain why, off the top of my head. The tested fish have a frickin thing lodged in their lip! Of course they're gonna get pissed off until it's out of their face. Hardly comparable to a 30 second piercing.

The whole argument is not even worth arguing in the first place it's so stupid and extreme. I just get pissed off that the media and public give it the credibility that they do. Fish are designed for eating gnarly things. Using bass as an example, they can and do eat crawdads, spiny bluegill, snakes, lizards, etc etc etc. The only difference between chomping a bluegill or crawdad and a 3/0 gammie is the stress involved in the fight, not the pain. Stupid stupid stupid. This kind of stuff makes me want to strangle somebody at msnbc for even taking it seriously. Gawd, once you see PETA's name in anything you can read between the lines.....


Sorry to take away from the original topic, my only concern with barbless hooks in the surf would be losing fish in the waves and stuff. You generally have to keep constant pressure with a barbless hook and that might be tough in the surging waves and what not. I think if you just go with a light wire hook you'll be fine. The fish are gonna be fine and dandy 95% of the time anyway.
-Brian

Check out logic in action.

Question: Do animals and fish feel pain?

Answer: Yes

Reasoning: Because if animals and fish didn't feel pain, they would do stupid things and kill themselves. Birds would fly into fires and die. Rats would get bitten by snakes and not struggle to get away. Bass would grab a shad in it's mouth, and the shad wouldn't struggle because it didn't feel any pain. Of course fish feel pain. Pain is a survival tool for every animal alive on this earth. If they didn't feel pain, they wouldn't react to things that were about to kill them.

Catch the fish, handle it right, let it go. Feel confident that the fish will survive. Feel good about yourself. If the fish feels some pain, who cares?

Mmmmmm, partially agree. They feel something that tells them not to do whatever they're doing. I don't think a fish getting a hook in it's mouth is equivalent to me getting a crowbar rammed through my jaw. I think they get some type of chemical released that says don't do what you're doing. Probably not much different than the chemical that says, time to spawn, or time to relate to wood, etc. Do they know something is prodding them in the mouth? no doubt. Do they wince in pain the whole time it's there? no way. They know it's there, they know it needs to get out, but I think that's about the extent of it.
-Brian

I think with bass they just don't have a lot of feeling in their lips because as you pointed out, they eat a lot of knarly stuff like crawdads, bluegill, etc. If a human popped a bluegill in their mouth, it would spine you like no other. For a bass, it's no thing. They don't want to feel that pain and so their mouth's have adapted so that they probably don't suffer a whole lot getting spined by a bluegill. I still absolutely think that fish feel pain. A fish hooked right through the nostril will flop around a whole lot more than one hooked in the lip. They feel it.

Ok, listen here sonny.

I think you gotta define pain first of all. I'm defining it as the human characteristic of disabling discomfort, I think we all know the feeling of pain, so I won't explain it in depth. Fish do not have the neurological system, or the brain power to experience pain like we do. Not even a fraction of it. I do think that fish know when something isn't right, or something is happening that's going to prevent them from functioning (eating, reproducing, keep living...) and that's what they're reacting to. People like PETA, and extreme radical environmentalists like rob want to use the word 'pain', but it doesn't apply. People and fish have two COMPLETELY different anatomies, brain functions, nerve systems, chemical balances, etc etc. Fish probably experience feelings that we don't even have words for. The closest thing to pain that fish are able to comprehend is that something is imminently wrong and needs to be fixed asap so that they can go back to eating and reproducing.
-Brian

cool, you called me a extreme radical environmentalist LMAO.

It sounds like we disagree about the definition of pain. That's fair enough. I know fish feel something when I stick them on my jig. I know they don't like it either because they start going nuts, and because they get smarter and smarter the more times you stick them. Personally, whether they feel pain or not is irrelevant to me because I'm going to keep fishing and keep sticking them. What gives me peace of mind is that when I release a fish, I know it's going to live and be just fine. And of course if I want to keep an ocean fish or a trout, that doesn't bother me one bit either. :P

I was serious, you are extreme dude. And you also use live trout.

JUST KIDDING, haha, rob does not, has not, and never will use live trout. :7 :P

I only use thunder trout. Or the occasional trouser trout. dumbass, get your facts straight.

PS. The beauty of the internet is that in a few hours some moron will read this and then tell their moron buddy that they heard that Rob from calfishing.com uses live trout. And then it will snowball into some retarded rumor and people at tackle stores will whisper knowingly that, yes they heard that Rob caught all those fish on live trout and blah blah blah. Note to self... Kick Brian's ass at nearest opportunity for starting vicious rumor. :P

:) That's the plan

Fish have brains no bigger than a gum ball probably. Anything with a brain that big lacks something, such as pain in certain parts of their body. I'm sure a fish has some pain around places such as its fins or lateral lin however i have heard that there are not many nerve endings in their mouths.

Save a wave, Ride a surfer.

Regardless of whether or not fish feel pain, catching them might harm their self-esteem (LOL). Therefore, I am never going fishing again (until tomorrow morning).
Bob

Right on party people, maybe I should post a poll: Who else uses live trout for bait? or Do fish have feelings?

Yeah, I'm not too concerned with whether a fish that I catch feels a lot of pain or not, but the article did make me think about minimizing the damage hooks do. So thats why I wondered if anyone had tried using barbless hooks in saltwater. Didn't get too many responses on that.

I think bottom line is that fish aren't too smart, because if those hooks really hurt them, they'd learn pretty quick not to eat the crap we're throwing at them; they'd associate pain with the lure. But instead, I think they are more concerned about putting food in their mouths than they are about hooks or about getting their feelings hurt ;-)

** tight lines make all my troubles go away **

Good point and nice intention dball. As a former norcal angler I can assure you that saltwater fish can be caught with barbless hooks. In fact, they have been required for several years for salmon north of Point Conception (barbless circle hooks to be specific). Others may point out that success with barbless hooks may be more problematic for some species than with others.
I would be extra cautious about avoiding slack line when using barbless hooks.
Bob

dball,
Havve you thought about just mashing down the barbs with plies so you don't have to buy new stuff or file too much.
Rob and Brian,
Isn't it a little hard on the equipment, catching double digit bass on live trouser trout? :+ Sounds like a technique I'd rather not learn!
Tight lines,
Wade

I do not know if fish feel pain or not but people do! Yes barbless hooks work in the surf and will be a hell of a lot easier to to get out of you or the person you might accidently hook. For me it makes fishing a lot easier all the way around not having barbs on my hooks.
Try it!

I've surf-fished in Nor Cal and use barbless hooks in fresh and salt. It takes skill and concentration to keep the line tight in surf, but it is a SPORT...and as someone said...these things have the brains the size of a gumball...so I figure, give them a chance instead of cranking down the drag and winching the poor bastards in. Lets see if you can do it. If not, well..the fish won. Score one for the gumball brain.

Cheers

~Chandler

"We were somewhere on the edge of the desert, near Barstow, when the drugs began to take hold" - HST