RE: running question,
FIT,
Oct 21st 2004, #1
Then let me ask you this.,
Lake,
Oct 21st 2004, #2
RE: Then let me ask you this.,
CATCHEM_CARO,
Oct 21st 2004, #4
RE: Then let me ask you this.,
FIT,
Oct 21st 2004, #6
RE: running question,
billythekidd44,
Oct 21st 2004, #3
RE: running question,
woodsac,
Oct 21st 2004, #5
RE: running question,
fish24,
Oct 21st 2004, #8
RE: running question,
swimbait,
Oct 21st 2004, #7
RE: running question,
billythekidd44,
Oct 21st 2004, #9
RE: running question,
swimbait,
Oct 21st 2004, #10
RE: running question,
FISH JC,
Oct 21st 2004, #15
RE: running question,
MC BASSIN,
Oct 22nd 2004, #31
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #37
RE: running question,
CATCHEM_CARO,
Oct 22nd 2004, #39
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #41
RE: running question,
swimbait,
Oct 22nd 2004, #42
RE: running question,
mteman,
Oct 22nd 2004, #45
RE: running question,
MC BASSIN,
Oct 22nd 2004, #40
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #46
RE: running question,
basserdave,
Oct 21st 2004, #12
RE: running question,
BuzzFish,
Oct 22nd 2004, #19
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #32
RE: running question,
swimbait,
Oct 21st 2004, #16
RE: running question,
Gordon,
Oct 21st 2004, #11
RE: running question,
billythekidd44,
Oct 21st 2004, #13
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 21st 2004, #14
RE: running question,
jiggin_pimpin,
Oct 21st 2004, #17
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #29
RE: running question,
billythekidd44,
Oct 21st 2004, #18
RE: running question,
BuzzFish,
Oct 22nd 2004, #20
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #30
Rule # 5,
mteman,
Oct 22nd 2004, #21
RE: Rule # 5,
swampy,
Oct 22nd 2004, #22
RE: Rule # 5 doestn matter,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #33
Oh, then nevermind *NM*,
mteman,
Oct 22nd 2004, #38
RE: running question,
Drop-Shot,
Oct 22nd 2004, #23
RE: running question,
billythekidd44,
Oct 22nd 2004, #24
RE: running question,
jrfish,
Oct 22nd 2004, #27
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #36
RE: running question,
BuzzFish,
Oct 22nd 2004, #26
This is a good idea,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #28
RE: running question,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #34
RE: running question,
Wade,
Oct 22nd 2004, #25
Let me ask you this Wade,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #35
RE: Let me ask you this Wade,
Wade,
Oct 22nd 2004, #43
RE: Let me ask you this Wade,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #47
RE: Let me ask you this Wade,
Wade,
Oct 22nd 2004, #48
RE: Let me ask you this Wade,
CATCHEM_CARO,
Oct 22nd 2004, #49
RE: Let me ask you this Wade,
Lake,
Oct 22nd 2004, #51
RE: Let me ask you this Wade,
KDOG,
Oct 23rd 2004, #52
RE: running question,
Gordon,
Oct 22nd 2004, #44
RE: running question,
Phil,
Oct 22nd 2004, #50
RE: running question,
Samurai TI,
Oct 24th 2004, #53
RE: running question,
BuzzFish,
Oct 25th 2004, #54
RE: running question,
billythekidd44,
Oct 25th 2004, #56
RE: running question,
FISH JC,
Oct 25th 2004, #55
RE: running question,
aparsons,
Oct 25th 2004, #57
RE: running question,
Kodiakjo,
Oct 25th 2004, #58
RE: running question,
basserdave,
Oct 25th 2004, #59
RE: running question,
woodsac,
Oct 25th 2004, #60
RE: running question,
aparsons,
Oct 26th 2004, #61
Everyone keep in mind,
Lake,
Oct 26th 2004, #62
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woodsac | Thu Oct-21-04 01:38 PM |
Member since Jul 17th 2002
859 posts
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#23882, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 3
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I'm not for running, but on their side:
Why should they have to stay in the same area just because someone else can't afford a truck (or car) to run with?
That's like saying the guys that have a 300 Merc can't use it, cause they'll have longer to fish since it took them less time to get there then someone with a little 50.
That kinda falls under the oar thing too. I don't think the guys with oars should be penalized because not everyone can afford a kickboat.
But, I think what it really boils down to is, 'Is running legal'? If not, put a stop to it.
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swimbait | Thu Oct-21-04 02:03 PM |
Charter member
9890 posts
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#23884, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 0
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Maybe I have a different perspective on running...
I'm no big pro fisherman, but I do put some value on my reputation. I have my website and some sponsors and whatnot. If I go to a tournament and run, and get caught by DFG and cited, that goes on public record. If you think people won't look you up on public record to see if you've been cited by DFG, think again. There's plenty of guys with nothing better to do than things like this. Therefore, I will never run in a tournament in a vehicle. And why should I fish a tourney on a big body of water where other guys can run but I can't due to my own principles? You guys aspiring to be pro's and fish the big boat tourneys should consider this before you hop in the truck to drive somewhere.
John's thing about using a boat to run is lame (sorry John) because that's not what these tournaments are about IMO. My favorite kind of tournament is the one where everyone fishes the same water as far as they can row or paddle. I love fishing a place like Pinto for this reason, because no one has an advantage. If you let me bring my boat and drag my kickboat around with me to fish out of, I'll happily take your money in any sight fishing tournament next year. It would be legal, but unfair to the other guys in the club. Lame if you ask me
As far as having a tube vs. a kickboat, that's a valid point. But I think that's unavoidable if you want to maintain a good sized club. Even the boat circuits allow small boats to fish team tournaments. 10hp and a functional livewell will get you in to a lot of team tourneys. If you're on the low end of boat equipment and you put your money down, that's just a choice you make.
Bottom line for me is that B-n-T ending the runners rule will mean I'm at more tourneys next year. And if SCBBBC wants to keep the rule, I don't think I'll be at the Invitational any time soon. Nothing personal, just a calculated decision on my part.
-Rob
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swimbait | Fri Oct-22-04 11:46 AM |
Charter member
9890 posts
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#23932, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 39
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Now Rich is a thinking man :) If DFG changed the rules to allow fish to be transported by land between spots on the SAME lake, then you have problem solved. I would run if it were legal, and we could stop having these long conversations on here lol.
So, you ask, how do you get reg changes with DFG?
The DFG Commission considers reg changes on a 2 year basis. I believe the next cycle comes up in 2005. If you want a change in regulation, you have to submit it, in writing, to the DFG Commission. It's best if you follow the wording of the current regulations and just change it to what you want it to be. So if you go to the section on transporting live gamefish and change the wording to say what you want it to say and send that in to the commission, then you'll at least get considered.
To really get things passed, it helps to have a DFG biologist or enforcement person (or three) on your side to help push things through. DFG will implement regulation changes in "emergency" type situations when their personnel see fisheries being threatened etc. This issue won't fall in that category, but having DFG on your side would be really helpful. It also helps to go to the commission meeting where your issue is dicussed and bring lots of people with you to make public comment during the allotted time.
Right now I am slowly working on getting reg changes in at San Pablo dam to try to protect what is left of the trophy bass fishery there. It may be too late by the time anything happens, or nothing may happen at all, but hey there is a saying, "nothing changes if nothing changes". So I'm trying. If you guys feel strongly about the runners rule, then try to get it changed. The worst they could say is no.
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mteman | Fri Oct-22-04 12:34 PM |
Charter member
2379 posts
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#23936, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 42
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Here is the law that affects running it is in the California code of regulations, title 14(Natural Resources) section 1.63.
§1.63. Movement of Live Fish. Except as provided in sections 4.30 and 230, live fin fish taken under the authority of a sport fishing license may not be transported alive from the water where taken. the exceptions in sections 4.30 does not apply as it only pertains to baitfish. Section 230 refers to the permit process needed for contests(tournaments). Now here is the interesting part, see (2) below. It appears that the DFG does have the power to establish permit conditions governing the movement of live fish associated with tournament activities.
copied from section 230 (d) Compliance with Sport Fishing Regulations. (1) No provisions of these regulations exempt any participant in a contest from the sport fishing regulations, except that the department, as part of Event Permit conditions, may authorize an exemption to new regulations which impose an increased minimum size limit larger than 12 inches, a slot size limit, or a reduced bag limit less than five fish. (2) To prevent the movement of live fish from one body of water to another, the department also may establish permit conditions governing the movement of live fish associated with tournament activities.
I think this is the area where we will need to concentrate our efforts. I am still researching this and keep in mind this may not be holy grail we seek since everything I have read so far makes the permits more stringent than the existing regs. not less.
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Gordon | Thu Oct-21-04 04:20 PM |
Member since Aug 15th 2002
599 posts
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#23889, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 7
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Running with a boat is a good idea, if...
The boat is a ski boat and you have to stay in your tube while you get pulled around the lake @ 40 mph to your next location. :o
But seriously folks, the law is what the law is. I ran the first day at the BnT Clear Lake Open this year (just when everything was coming down) and I felt like a criminal, looking over my shoulder for rangers or in my rear-view mirror for police. In fact, I didn't run the next day even though my chances for placing higher in the tourney would have been better. So I'm glad John took a stand so that nobody in BnT tourneys has an unfair advantage. It's a lot more relaxing to launch & weigh-in at one place; no lost time due to driving, packing/unpacking, easier on the fish, etc. And it boils down to who figures out the fish in that area, not who finds a secret honey-hole on the other side of the lake. I've fished boater tourneys where the winner never used the big motor, they just trolled within sight of the marina. It's what you do with what you've got.
I'm climbing down off the soapbox now... the godfather
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billythekidd44 | Thu Oct-21-04 09:56 PM |
Member since Dec 06th 2001
959 posts
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#23903, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 14
Fri Oct-22-04 06:14 AM by billythekidd44
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I know that was not your intent(running vs non-running)for this discussion but it was on the edge and he we are again.Obviously we all have our own opinions,it`s just all been blown out of perportion starting at the beginning of this year.My point being everybody was running at the beginning of the year and all the years before that,now since the article peoples view points have somehow changed.This is what I was trying to get at.The rule or law be it as it may has always been there,we all have known about it, why the sudden change of heart?If anybody ever was going to get cited it would have been at the open when it was the hot topic and dfg new we were having a tourney.When I fish b-n-t tournies I respect the no running rule and look at it as a challenge(even though I got my butt kicked in these areas,lol)I would just appreciate the same for scccbc.There`s really no need to bring up principles and reputation or to even say you wont fish one of scccbc`s tournies because of it,thats something you kinda keep to yourself if you dont want to stir things up.I`m not try to start shiat myself,just trying to understand why the strong feelings against it by a few of you all of a sudden(since may).Anyway I`m done on this subject,I shall bite my lip again from here on out on it I hope,lol.John if I pissed ya off that wasn`t my intention I guess I got a bit off base.Bill
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Wade | Fri Oct-22-04 09:19 AM |
Charter member
919 posts
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#23915, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 0
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Boat VS Truck Running Legality: The boat is legal, the truck is not. Period, end of story. Boat Running VS Not Running Morality: If we could all have access to boats, then fine. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen. Is it morally wrong to allow those who can run in a boat to do so while others can't? I'd say no it's not morally wrong. At the same time, I'd rather see it just be a man powered tourney. This give everyone an even playing feild and allows me to look around and see what the other guy is doing. I tried running once on the 1st day of my 1st B-n-T Open. I thought our permits for the tournament allowed it. Had I known, I wouldn't have. In that tourney, I only put in for Big Fish because I was out of work and couldn't afford to put in for the whole thing. I didn't catch any over 3# and released all of my fish. Had I caught a Hog, I would have un-knowingly broken the law. Since then I have 1/2 Run (drive to a different spot and work my way back to the weigh in), once at the B-n-T Beacon Harbor tourney. I like this because it allows me to cover more water and it's legal since it doesn't transport the fish over land. It still requires a contestant to stay within oaring distance of the tourney's weigh in and that means everyone is still working the same basic area, just slightly broadened. Also, if anyone needs a ride to do this, there are enough people willing to give a lift that it makes the vehicle/drivers license issue a moot point. Tight lines, Wade
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KDOG | Sat Oct-23-04 09:37 PM |
Member since Jul 15th 2002
167 posts
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#23947, "RE: Let me ask you this Wade"
In response to Reply # 51
Mon Oct-25-04 07:22 AM by Lake
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In my opinion I think it should be ok. your bring you tube/kick in a truck or car. you dont bring it in a boat. i think tubes and boats should be kept seperate. if every one had a boat it would be different. I dont think it matters on fairness, becasue just as many people have won from launching at the meeting point, as people that have driven off. and its every ones choice. just liek you could kick half a mile to your secret slough or rock pile only to find someone there, its all risk you take in fishing. and this does break a law, but only one person in our club over the past 15+ years have been busted, which was also thrown out of court. I think it should be alowwed, and keep it as if you choose to take the risk then you do, if you dont you dont. also how many years did both of our clubs go by without the right permits? but no one complained then cuz we were fishing. its the way it always has been. but not everyone agrees on everything its just the way it goes. you cannot make everyone happy, but, if you do have a blast off of 50+ people form one spot, i guarantee somethign else will coem up nd people will argue about people getting to close or fishign theyre area. but I think trying to chnage the law is a good idea. my typing skills suck, and im not even gonan try and re read and fix, do deal with it guys :D
edit: to clean Kevins foul mouth :) KMVP
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Gordon | Fri Oct-22-04 12:18 PM |
Member since Aug 15th 2002
599 posts
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#23934, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 0
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One thing I like about the club(s) are that they are "low-impact" fishing -- no pollution, no noise (except Lakes 'rap-blaster' radio ;) lol, no wakes, etc. Running -either by boat or truck - adds back the elements of noise & pollution. You can pooh-pooh this as a purist' dream, but you have to start somewhere. I have a bass boat (Stratos 285 w/175HP) which I haven't used in a few years (engine needs rebuilding). I was actually getting to the point where I didn't want to take it out because it was such a waste of resources (tow vehicle gas/oil, boat gas/oil, insurance, maintenance & repairs, launch fees, etc.) just to catch a few green fish & then throw them back in the lake. I find that through the club events, I am just as successful (if not more so) with a lot less strain on resources, both natural and $.
Regarding running with a boat -- if you have a boat, fish in a boat tourney. But I can see your point when you say "If you can run in your truck, I should be able to run in my boat." the godfather
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Samurai TI | Sun Oct-24-04 11:22 AM |
Charter member
1714 posts
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#23949, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 50
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I just got back from the Shasta BASS Open and man, couldn't believe this thread!
Anyway, something I would like to mention, which is not entirely based on the original question (sorry John!).
I like how many people are talking about the law. Now my question is (don't take this the wrong way...anybody! :-) )...
Have you ever knowingly broken the law? i.e. speeding, using illegal substances, jay walking, being loud in a quiet zone?
What makes this any different? :P
Now, for those who mentioned taking kickboat/floattubing somewhere, I have to ask the question, who started the affiliation with BASS? :+
Sorry to get off the subject but this is a great thread! Thanks John for not making it a you vs. me argument! :7
Let me make it known I respect all of your thoughts, arguments, and ideas. Let's also remember we have to work together to be able to make our sport bigger and better. If we have division, like I know some of you have, we will never be able to take this sport to the next level.
In the upcoming months you will see some things WE (SCBBBC & BNT) will be doing. I'm including everyone in this and will give everyone (whether you like me or hate me ;-) ) a chance to participate. Does anyone want to be on ESPN??? :9
Todd
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woodsac | Mon Oct-25-04 04:51 PM |
Member since Jul 17th 2002
859 posts
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#23987, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 59
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Lots of people are saying that running with a boat is not fair, because not everyone has a boat. But, not everyone has oars. So once you run somewhere in a vehicle, you can still fish areas those without oars could not. That doesn't seem fair either.
And I heard, 'It's not my fault they don't have oars'. Well, it's not their fault you don't have a boat. :P
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aparsons | Tue Oct-26-04 08:01 AM |
Charter member
531 posts
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#23989, "RE: running question"
In response to Reply # 60
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Maybe BNT should vote on it at its annual meeting & consider allowing boats for running @ the Open. That would at least put the question of transporting fish to rest, assuming that BNT will disallow transportation of live fish by truck/car.
The SCBBBC could vote on it, too, but my hunch is that the club won't go for it. I agree that it's somewhat arbitrary, but, then again, a lot of tournament rules are arbitrary (e.g., in boat tournaments, no trolling, no fishing with two rods even if licensed to do so, no live bait, etc.). My guess is that most of the guys would say that you have to have a float tube/kickboat to fish, & you need some way to get to the tournament, but you don't need a boat.
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