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swimbait | Fri Mar-04-05 01:16 PM |
Charter member
9890 posts
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#5873, "under represented forage"
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The other day I was thinking about a question... The question is, what are ALL of the food options for a big bass. Considering lakes around here, I came up with this list, in no particular order. I probably missed something, so point it out if you think of something else.
crawdads trout shad bluegill, green sunfish and redears crappie (black and white) common goldfish carp suckerfish (various species) small catfish small bass (largemouth, spotted, smallmouth) minnows (various species) small birds snakes salamanders and newts frogs and tadpoles mice and rats
What I think is interesting is that some of these forage items have very few lures designed around them.
There are only a handful of real bluegill imitators, and even fewer that are good for anything besides bed fishing. Its hard to make bluegill lures swim and hook and land fish, but there's certainly a lot of potential here.
Crappie are common in many lakes and I have no doubt that bass eat many many crappie from fry size on up to 8 or 9" long and yet there are virtually no crappie imitating lures aside from the castaic crappie which is very small and not very castable/fishable. Certainly there is no realistic crappie lure longer than 5".
The golfish, carp and suckerfish I usually see are not small ones, but every fish had to be 1 to 12" long at some point in its life. Maybe I don't see the small ones because they are getting eaten? Fish like this are probably harder for bass to catch than trout, but you can bet they get eaten with regularity. Some of the swimbaits now come in goldfish, carp and suckerfish patterns but they're all baits that are shaped like trout. These type of fish usually have big pectoral fins, long tails and distinctly shaped heads/mouths. Not much in the lure department here.
Small catfish definitely get eaten by bass. I've heard two first hand accounts of it happening. But the only catfish lure I can think of is a Japanese topwater called a Namazu, which is small and only vaguely catfish like. No one makes a swimbait to look or move like a catfish. I bet it would work.
Baby bass are pretty well represented in the smaller sizes. There are lots of good baby bass pattern crankbaits. But in the 7 to 12" range, there isn't much. The Castaic Baby Bass was one of the few lures designed to look exactly like a bass, and that bait catches fish. Most of the other baits that are available are trout shaped and painted like a bass.
Bird lures are out there, but hard to come by. Some day someone will make a bird lure where the feet really churn around like a bird trying to kick through the water. Its a hard lure to make, but if someone did it right, it'd probably work well in shallow summertime conditions.
I guess my point is, what a huge range of opportunities are out there for lure design! In each of the categories above, I really believe that if someone comes out with a bait that looks real, fishes well, and moves right through the water, the baits will catch fish because fish are already eating all of these things and no one is presenting baits that look the same as what they are eating. Thoughts, comments, opinions?
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RE: under represented forage,
Sacto John,
Mar 04th 2005, #1
RE: under represented forage,
swimbait,
Mar 04th 2005, #2
RE: under represented forage,
Tm Customs,
Mar 04th 2005, #3
RE: under represented forage,
SJ,
Mar 04th 2005, #4
RE: under represented forage,
swimbait,
Mar 04th 2005, #5
RE: under represented forage,
woodsac,
Mar 04th 2005, #6
RE: under represented forage,
FISH JC,
Mar 04th 2005, #7
so this is ironic,
swimbait,
Mar 04th 2005, #8
Insects,
Urban,
Mar 06th 2005, #19
RE: Insects,
Sacto John,
Mar 07th 2005, #24
RE: under represented forage,
swimbait,
Mar 04th 2005, #9
RE: under represented forage,
bassnet,
Mar 04th 2005, #10
RE: under represented forage,
swimbait,
Mar 04th 2005, #11
RE: under represented forage,
Chris,
Mar 07th 2005, #21
RE: under represented forage,
BillH,
Mar 23rd 2005, #30
RE: under represented forage,
Nico,
Mar 04th 2005, #12
RE: under represented forage,
Mattlures,
Mar 04th 2005, #13
RE: under represented forage,
bassnet,
Mar 04th 2005, #14
RE: under represented forage,
socalfrogger,
Mar 31st 2005, #34
RE: under represented forage,
swimbait,
Mar 04th 2005, #15
RE: under represented forage,
bassinzink,
Mar 05th 2005, #16
RE: under represented forage,
FISH JC,
Mar 20th 2005, #29
RE: small birds?,
wils,
Mar 05th 2005, #17
RE: funny lures,
bass to the end,
Mar 05th 2005, #18
RE: under represented forage,
salmonoid 1,
Mar 06th 2005, #20
RE: under represented forage,
Chris,
Mar 07th 2005, #22
RE: under represented forage,
Chris,
Mar 07th 2005, #23
RE: under represented forage,
Criley,
Mar 07th 2005, #25
RE: under represented forage,
Lightninrod,
Mar 08th 2005, #26
RE: under represented forage,
nathan,
Mar 09th 2005, #27
RE: under represented forage,
Criley,
Mar 09th 2005, #28
RE: under represented forage,
magmaster,
Mar 25th 2005, #31
RE: under represented forage,
Samurai TI,
Mar 27th 2005, #32
RE: under represented forage,
Tim Gago,
Mar 30th 2005, #33
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Tm Customs | Fri Mar-04-05 02:59 PM |
Member since Sep 06th 2004
1057 posts
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#5876, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 2
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Rob,
I have been making this zipper sculpin/mudsucker bait for a while I am not sure if the fish see it as a mudsucker or what but it does work well on the delta!
In Japan they also have Lunkers Club Lures they make several catfish baits and bass aswell. Some Japanese comapnies also make cool baby bird impressions sort of a high tec. jitterbugs & Crazy Crawlers.
I think the reason alot of new baits are not being made is that current styles have been used in the USA for so long it is hard for a company trying to introduce a new bait (Bird, Catfish, Snake) that would be sucessful because it would have to be very nice and costly and more than likley they would not sell enough because they were to expensive since they were nice, regardless of fish catching ablities. This is why I belive they have such a wide range of lures in japan since they are relitivily new to bass fishing not as many traditional baits have been set over there? Not sure if this is at all correct just my thoughts.
Taylor
http://www.calfishing.com/dc/user_files/3360.jpg
Hey let that Bass go I wanna catch her some day http://www.calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/tmcustoms/ Attachment
#1, (.jpg file)
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woodsac | Fri Mar-04-05 04:03 PM |
Member since Jul 17th 2002
859 posts
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#5880, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 5
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I've caught literally dozens of bass up to 3lbs with dragon flys sticking out of their throat. But again, a hard bait to mimick properly. It's a bait that needs movement and noise(like their wings) but needs to hold it's position on the water.
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Urban | Sun Mar-06-05 04:49 PM |
Member since Sep 22nd 2004
402 posts
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#5904, "Insects"
In response to Reply # 5
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Theres been many times that Ive seen bass go banannas on damselflies and dragonflys. Last summer I was struggling to get something going, all the while fish were busting everywhere. Well, I finally started paying attention and the bass were eating these little blue damselflies that were everywhere. I tore my boat apart looking for those silly little 3" blue senkos that Id bought for dropshotting, but it was to no avail I couldnt find them, and I never did catch anything.
At certain times of the year, bass turn to insects for a huge percentage of their diet, but it also depends on the particular lake. And Im not talking 10 inch bass, Im talking solid fish. In the real NorCal, two diet studies on bass have shown this. One study was done at Freshwater Lagoon in Humboldt (I think I knew every bass by name in that lake), and the other was in Trinity Lake. In both studies, stomach contents of all fish (up to like 6 pounds) contained a very high percentage of insects. No wonder many, many huge smallmouth are caught each year out of trinity by drifting a tight lined cricket.
Can somebody design a swimbait that looks like a cricket? Just kidding.
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swimbait | Fri Mar-04-05 05:29 PM |
Charter member
9890 posts
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#5883, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 3
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Tim - the zippers with the sculpin type heads are cool, no doubt they get bit. But what I've always disliked about lizards and baits like that are the tendency for the lures to roll on their sides or sit funny on the bottom. They look great in your hand but when you put a hook in one and t-rig it and drag it along the bottom, what really usually happens is that the bait rolls on its side, or upside down or just does whatever based on how it landed on the cast. Again, I'm not saying that is bad, obviously fish are going to eat stuff like that anyway, but I believe that weighted and/or foam/air inserted lures will be the wave of the future, because if you weight one part of a lure and put foam or air pockets in the other part, it gives it consistent underwater action.
I have not chopped a huddleston deluxe in half but I believe they have lead on the bottom and foam on top. Great concept! Makes the lure stay always upright. The ROF5 huddleston is truly genius the way it falls and stays level at the same time. Check out the River2Sea yabbie crawdad lure, it has air pockets in the claws to keep it upright. Killer bait right there. I know this stuff isn't a new idea, I'm sure someone has done it 100 years ago but just within the past few years are we starting to see people making baits that not only look real, but also move and swim real. Props to castaic for their line of realistic baits. The castaic softbait trout swims awesome and looks a lot like a trout. But some of their other baits had only the realism part and didn't have consistent swimming actions.
I throw a post out like this sometimes as a discussion point but also in hopes that people reading it will be inspired to make some really awesome baits. It's hard for a garage guy to make baits with internal weighting, air pockets and foam, but that is where the future is IMO and I hope when the bait mfgr's pick up on this, that they make some baits to represent some of the less popular forage like crappie, bluegill, catfish, etc.
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Chris | Mon Mar-07-05 09:10 AM |
Charter member
2185 posts
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#5907, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 11
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I wouldn't be suprised if eating catfish made the bass turn a different color. Compare farm raised salmon with wild salmon. The meat from a farm raised salmon will be relatively white if color dyes are not added to their food pellets. The meat of wild salmon gets their pink coloration from eating krill. Now I grant ya, these coloration differences are on the inside rather than outside but all fish will vary in coloration depending on water color, light penetration, bottom composition, time of year, etc. It seems reasonable that food sources would do the same thing.
Psst... I have a theory about the color red in lures. If red is the first color to fade out, wouldn't it be reasonable to think it would be the first to take on a more natural appearance underwater??? That is why line companies make red(pink) fishing line which was all the rage in the 70's and early 80's. Hmmm... ;)
Chris
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bassinzink | Sat Mar-05-05 06:07 PM |
Member since Jan 11th 2003
968 posts
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#5892, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 12
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Just stuff the frog with some weights. I had a frog that had a good leak in it last summer and if i forgot to squeeze it after a couple casts it would become a submersible frog that slowly sank. I had gotten lazy one day and just decided to fish the frog back underwater on a cast cause i forgot to squeeze it and low and behold a 3lber came and ate it. I tried the subsurface frog for a little longer that day for no more takers. I bet it you stuck an oz of lead in a frog you could fish it in a manner they are definetly not used to seeing. Also don't forget baby stripers, I'm sure they are taken down by the bass in the delta and lakes with stripers. cz
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#5895, "RE: funny lures"
In response to Reply # 17
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popeye lures and simpions lures work great
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Chris | Mon Mar-07-05 09:20 AM |
Charter member
2185 posts
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#5908, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 20
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I saw a full grown mallard at Clear Lake get hit by something. I never saw what had a hold of it. It grabbed the bird's feet and/or tail feathers and held on. The duck just kept flapping it's wings and quacking wildly until the fish let go. OMG it was too funny. :o :7
Chris
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Chris | Mon Mar-07-05 09:25 AM |
Charter member
2185 posts
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#5909, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 0
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Well, I've got the painting skills. All I need is a couple grand worth of wood working tools, some time to develop some 100% original hard baits and...
Well for now, I'm just gonna have to sell my paint jobs on other peoples lures.
Great topic, Rob! :-)
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Lightninrod | Tue Mar-08-05 06:50 AM |
Member since Oct 31st 2003
533 posts
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#5915, "RE: under represented forage"
In response to Reply # 25
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Lordy Criley but what's with that Bass's eyes? Forgive me if you've answered this before but those are new pics to me.
Dan "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less"
Deo Vindice
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© Copyright Robert Belloni 1997-2012. All Rights Reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed without express written consent.
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