RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Tm Customs,
Jun 24th 2005, #1
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
magmaster,
Jun 24th 2005, #2
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
RIPDLIP,
Jun 24th 2005, #3
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Urban,
Jun 24th 2005, #4
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Fishing805Fever,
Jun 24th 2005, #5
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jun 24th 2005, #6
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Phil,
Jun 24th 2005, #7
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
bassnet,
Jun 24th 2005, #8
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jun 24th 2005, #9
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
bassnet,
Jun 24th 2005, #10
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
bassnet,
Jun 24th 2005, #11
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Fishing805Fever,
Jun 25th 2005, #12
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
RIPDLIP,
Jun 25th 2005, #13
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Billy Q,
Jun 25th 2005, #14
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
asaump4u,
Jun 25th 2005, #15
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
RIPDLIP,
Jun 25th 2005, #16
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jun 25th 2005, #17
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
ben23,
Jun 25th 2005, #18
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
magmaster,
Jun 25th 2005, #19
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Phil,
Jun 25th 2005, #20
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
ocmulgee,
Jun 25th 2005, #21
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Lightninrod,
Jun 25th 2005, #22
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Fishing805Fever,
Jun 26th 2005, #23
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
ocmulgee,
Jun 26th 2005, #24
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Henry Shorr,
Jun 26th 2005, #25
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Tm Customs,
Jun 26th 2005, #26
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
ocmulgee,
Jun 28th 2005, #27
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
BobH,
Jun 28th 2005, #28
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
SLM,
Jun 28th 2005, #29
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
CJ,
Jun 29th 2005, #30
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Lightninrod,
Jun 30th 2005, #31
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Lightninrod,
Jun 30th 2005, #32
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Tm Customs,
Jun 30th 2005, #33
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Henry Shorr,
Jun 30th 2005, #34
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jun 30th 2005, #35
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Tm Customs,
Jun 30th 2005, #36
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
bassnet,
Jun 30th 2005, #37
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jun 30th 2005, #38
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
ocmulgee,
Jul 02nd 2005, #39
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
bassnet,
Jul 02nd 2005, #40
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Lightninrod,
Jul 03rd 2005, #41
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
ocmulgee,
Jul 03rd 2005, #42
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
59lbwsb,
Jul 04th 2005, #43
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jul 05th 2005, #44
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
59lbwsb,
Jul 06th 2005, #45
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jul 06th 2005, #46
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
59lbwsb,
Jul 09th 2005, #47
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
cbanoles2003,
Jul 10th 2005, #48
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Mattlures,
Jul 10th 2005, #49
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Chris,
Jul 12th 2005, #51
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
Nico,
Jul 10th 2005, #50
RE: The best world record Hoax?,
D Smith,
Jul 29th 2005, #52
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Urban | Fri Jun-24-05 04:17 PM |
Member since Sep 22nd 2004
402 posts
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#6582, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 3
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Ive always felt Perrys weight was questionable, mostly due to the scales that were used. After Matt laid out the measurements, it definitely seems questionable. However, I think it should stand just because. Plus, if it was removed the new WR owner probably would not feel comfortable with having the record, and the new WR would always be surrounded by scandal and criticism.
And I agree, Duclos's fish looks totally legit, that fish no doubt was absolutely huge. The thing I cant figure out about that though was that Duclos was touted as a trophy hunter, yet he didnt know what the world record weighed. Thats very, very odd.
And we all know that Crupi's fish cant ever be considered for a record since DFG officials never witnessed, in person, that fish to determine it was indeed a largemouth. I know, I know, Crupis fish kinda looks like a smallmouth. Yeah right.
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Fishing805Fever | Fri Jun-24-05 06:00 PM |
Charter member
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#6583, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 4
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The one thing that has bothered me the most about the w.r. is the fact that the lake ,let alone the state hasnt produced another trophy Bass even close to the fish holding the record right now.Who knows maybe the rumors of weights in the fishes gut were true?I have seen pics of George with some nice fish, but not that nice. Tight lines, brian
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bassnet | Fri Jun-24-05 09:02 PM |
Charter member
1213 posts
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#6588, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 8
Fri Jun-24-05 09:06 PM by bassnet
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Anyone seen an 11-15 smallie lately? I bet not- but it was a different place back in the day, they used to rope 100-200 lb. bluefin out of Avalon in the early 1900's, triple didgit bluefin only a short row away from the island- we're living in a different world, I would bet the farm on Perry's record. If you can explain why the triple digit crewcuts aren't going nuts on schools of chovies on the 14 mile bank, you might be able to explain the 22-4 from Georgia in 1932. ####, I bet there were Seminoles spearing bass in Florida at least that size in 1925. When's the last time you saw an angler with a 550 lb. black sea bass in Long Beach? Please explain this mystery to me
Matt, I hear you- Crupi, Danny K, that kid that got the 21 something on the leadhead trout in 91' at Castaic- lots of talent and stuff, but I still think there were better opportunities back in the day- :D
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Fishing805Fever | Sat Jun-25-05 07:09 AM |
Charter member
posts
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#6590, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 11
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I'll take my Soup with Crackers please,And give MR.Perry a fat goose egg for me }( .He should have at least claimed he caught it in Florida it would have seemed more credible to me anyhow.@ least florida has a few bass in the top 20 fish caught. Word, Brian
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jmkiernan | Sat Jun-25-05 10:26 AM |
Member since Oct 27th 2008
92 posts
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#6594, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 15
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This is a quote from an article by Doug Hannon;
The current world record emerged from the darkest days of the Great Depression early in the last century. At 69 years old, many see it as forever insurmountable, but I believe that this century will mark the passage to a new world record bass. George Perry's mark, like Roger Bannister's breaking of the 4-minute mile, will never be forgotten, but, because of the many new factors that exist, it will almost certainly be broken. Among these are new resources and improvements in existing resources, genetic and other scientific breakthroughs, and dynamic management priorities rather than single, statewide regulations. Add to this the inevitable increase in public knowledge of the proper techniques, types of lures and presentations, and places to look for record bass, and it becomes a foregone conclusion that by now, if even a miniscule number of such fish existed, one would almost certainly have been caught. I believe we are fast approaching the day when significant numbers of fish of this stature will be swimming in public waters.
For a world record largemouth to be caught it must exist, so I would begin with that premise. Throwing out fraudulent or unverifiable claims it has not been done, so the logical conclusion is that up until today such fish do not exist. It makes more sense then to say that the 22-pound bass caught by Bob Crupi was most probably the biggest largemouth in existence. I completely discount claims to 24-pounders, because, by even elementary statistics, that would require the presence of hundreds of bass in the 22-23 pound range. Yet, by doubling the size of the pre-Florida strain state record, what the catches of Crupi and others do prove is the power that population genetics and the introduction of the Florida genetic strain can have on the eventual size of bass.
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ben23 | Sat Jun-25-05 01:35 PM |
Member since Apr 09th 2004
186 posts
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#6598, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 17
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even if it is not really the reord, I think it is great that it is set in stone for many reasons: -we wouldnt have this fun conversation :-) -there record wouldnt be as sought after -The longstanding record adds the the excitement of modern day world record fishing
I think everyone knows its going to be broken soon, so why worry about it when its gunna be #2 once i come out to Cali.(just kidding)
And Bob Cupri- well he probably wants the record really bad, i know i would ...soo its tough to deny him the record
BEN god bless
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ocmulgee | Sat Jun-25-05 04:04 PM |
Member since Jun 25th 2005
6 posts
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#6602, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 0
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I have been lurking on this site for a while, but after i read the this thread i decided to register.As you can see this is my first post.
I am from telfair county georgia, home of the world record bass. Some things about the record are not known to the general public, like the fact that montgomery lake is not a lake as such, its a oxbow lake off of the ocmulgee river.Montgomery lake, as it is called in the record books, is mostly filled in by sediment, and could only be accessed by boat in times of high water.
In 1932 no one in this area knew anything about a trophy bass, i dought there was any intentional wrong doing in the weighing and measurments taken of the fish.No one would have had any reason to lie as there was nothing to gain by catching a world record....so much unlike present day. Theres no way to know if all the info about the fish is accurate but i've never heard any rumors that the fish was overstated in any way. In a rural county with a population of 16,000 everyone knows everyone else....and their business also.
During the era the fish was taken in there were no ponds or lakes to fish in, going fishing meant a creek or the ocmulgee river.One reason another outstanding bass has'nt been caught in the area is that there are still no managed lakes in telfair county, and hardly anyone targets bass in the river.
There is a 105 acre state owned and managed lake in the county to the north, thats 12 years old and has produced a 15.5 last year, a fla./northern cross i think.
The only thing i can add to the discussion about the measurements and weight of the record bass vs. measurements and weights of california bass is the time of year the record was caught,although i've never heard otherwise i'm sure she was layed out. I do not know the dates the fish were caught that have been used for comparison, did they have eggs or not?
I sure the record bass was not a planned hoax but not being from the area and what times were like in that era i can see the room for speculation.
In 1932 folks were worried about putting food on the table...not record bass.
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Lightninrod | Sat Jun-25-05 04:28 PM |
Member since Oct 31st 2003
533 posts
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#6604, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 21
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Well said ocmulgee.
Btw, I'm not too far from you as I live in Houston County.
Dan "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less"
Deo Vindice
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Fishing805Fever | Sun Jun-26-05 05:59 AM |
Charter member
posts
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#6605, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 21
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Great first post,What in your opinion was the basses forage that got him that big? Have any other decent sized bass benn caught in that area since,that record bass had to have passed on its genetics at some point in its life? tight lines, Brian
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ocmulgee | Sun Jun-26-05 08:45 AM |
Member since Jun 25th 2005
6 posts
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#6606, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 23
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The forage was likely bream, redbreast and shiners.
The river is not fished for bass, it gets too low to navigate at times, there will never be another fish of this class taken in the river due to lack of interest and low water conditions which will not allow them to get to old age.
Pesticides and sediment don't help the fishery either, there are few rivers or waterways in georgia that don't have warnings about mercury, the warnings tell you certain species to not eat, or 1 meal a month or 1 meal a week.
Big cities up stream dump ''treated waste'' in the river.
Since the flathead catfish has taken over the river the brown bullhead is extinct and the redbreast population is low, the flathead is a freshwater shark, they eat anything that fits in their mouth....small spawning bass included.
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ocmulgee | Tue Jun-28-05 06:13 AM |
Member since Jun 25th 2005
6 posts
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#6625, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 0
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>With out a doubt it would have to be George Perry's hoax. The >George Perry story has always bothered me. It just doesnt add >up. According to those maesurments that fish should have >weighed over 25lbs. I think that fish could have been a >striper. Maybe George knew the diference but maybe the people >at the post ofice didnt. Once they told him about the field >and stream contest he let them believe it was a large mouth. >The facts are there was no pictures and no head or any other >remains, and the biggest factor of them all is the numbers >simply dont add up. >to put it in perspective Mike Longs fish was 27x27 and weighed >20lbs 12oz. >Jed dickerson's fish was 28 1/2 x 26 3/4 and weighed 21lbs >11oz. >Jeds fish was only 1 1/2 inches longer and 1/2 less in girth >than Mikes and it weight a pound more. >Perry's haox was 4inches longer yes 4 INCHES and 2 inches >fatter than Jeds but it was only 9oz heavier? >I think His record should be removed and the rightful owner >BOb Crupi should be crowned. I know why that false record >still stands. Because it gives everybody something to shoot >for and its been around for ever but That doesnt make it >right. Do the math its that simple. >What do you guys think?
I'll try to add a common sense approach to the length and weight discussion.
Bass that are feeding on protein rich stocked trout will have a dirrerent build than a fish grown in ga., fla., the forage these fish utilize is not close in nutritional value to trout.
I realize most fishermen from cal. have not seen bass from the southern US, therefore have nothing to compare with.
If anyone took the time, using mathmatical calculations a chart or table could be created by taking the top 25 bass from ga. and fla. combined.....with length and weight, to come up with a lb. per inch figure.
Do the same with the top 25 california trout fed bass.
The time of year comes into play...spawn vs. post spawn, this must be added into the equation also.
Hard to beleive someone has'nt already thought about this before, but its human nature to take the easy way out and just say "The world record is a hoax" rather than research the subject throughly and find honest answers that might remove the doughts lingering in some peoples mind.
I can do the research and the calculations involved in the ga. vs. california comparision but me being from georgia no one would beleive me, i urge anyone who has the interest and time to do the comparision.
Anyone who is interested send me a PM and i will get as much local public info as i can find on the top 25 bass and their measurements.
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Lightninrod | Thu Jun-30-05 05:39 AM |
Member since Oct 31st 2003
533 posts
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#6653, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 30
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"Don't even get me started about Doug Hannons' credibility. I did an investigative reporter purchase of his Snake baits last year. Talk about a Hoax."
I did too I'm sorry to admit.........
Dan "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less"
Deo Vindice
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Mattlures | Thu Jun-30-05 06:55 PM |
Member since Jan 25th 2007
521 posts
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#6658, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 34
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Ok here is why I dont believe it. The whole record is based on hearsay. There is no proof. No picture, No actual wittness, no remains and motive to cheat. First off to say that people were more honest back then is rediculous. People have been cheating and steeling since biblical times. Georges dad had recently died and he was the man of the house and times were hard. It was the depression and he was trying to feed his family. They were desperate. People SAY george didnt know about field and streams contest when he caught the fish. How do they know? If he was planning a fraud than of cource he would say that. Acording to the book Sowbelly, Georges partner was never found for an interview. If thats true than all you have is George himself. he could have found a fresh floater or used dyamite. The story also says there were many witnesses at the post office. I may be wrong but I think the only two that signed any thing were the the guy at the post office and the notery guy. We also have George winning the contest again and winning more money/prizes with a teen bass tht barley looks 8lbs. Why didnt he mount the fish? Because he was poor of course! I rember taking a trip accross the country when I was a kid and I saw a lot of old fish heads that were just nailed to boards. He could have done that. even if he didnt know about the contest than, he found out at the post office. You could say he didnt care about the fish or the record. Than why would he emediatly weigh the fish on a certifeid scale and have it witnessed by a notery. Thats simple becaus he wanted to win the money/gear. One of the biggest problems That I have is no picture. He took the time to go out of his way to show people at the post office and have it wieghed but never thought to have a picture. That one realy bothers me. You could say he didnt care but his actions say diferently. Now dont go getting all upset about these theorys. I dont think George dynamited a fish. I was just making a point that even the smallest amount of real proof is not there. If there was a pic I would believ it. If there was a head or mount I would believe it. If there was no motive I might believe it. THIS IS FACT, The record is based purely on peoples stories. I need to see something before I believe it. I have tried to believe his story but there just isnt any proof. I think the numbers are off based on other huge bass. Is it posible that a fish with those numbers could weigh that much? I guess its posible but I still think highly unlikely. Up until Lightning Rods picture I didnt think that a fish that big in Georgia was posible but I have to admit that pic actualy cast a tiny bit of doubt on my beliefs. For anybody who thinks That I am just jealous, You are wrong. I am jealous of any big bass bigger than mine, but I dont think the world record bass should be based on stories with no physical proof. A bunch of you could argue reasons as to why he did this and that but there still isnt any proof. I apologize If my post offended anybody. I have to admit it wasnt right for me ta call him fraud. I cant prove that he was, but you cant prove that he realy did catch the world record. So hopefuly the next time sombody catches it they prove it without a doubt. I know if I caught it, the fish would be kept.
www.mattlures.com
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ocmulgee | Sat Jul-02-05 12:49 PM |
Member since Jun 25th 2005
6 posts
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#6688, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 38
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When i made my first post i thought to myself..''Why bother...Everyone's with a negative post has already made up there mind that it's a hoax!''
My first impression was right.
I know it has to be frustrating to have a World record largemouth swimming in california and not have anyone catch it, but as in our legal system anyone is innocent till proven guilty.
I'm putting this link to the best overall bassing water in the state, it has the top 25 bass taken on the link, if anyone decides to take on the challenge of proving or disproving the hoax theory by the weights and lenghts calculations that i outlined in an earlier post the names might be helpful.......but so far the naysayer's are content to speculate....and not act.
http://www.stewart.army.mil/dpw/fish/CATCH.htm
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Lightninrod | Sun Jul-03-05 04:36 PM |
Member since Oct 31st 2003
533 posts
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#6701, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 39
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Thank you for that link to Ft. Stewart. I need to get over there but that's a long trip for me. I'm going to call them Tuesday though and get more info. Have you fished there ocmulgee?
Dan "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less"
Deo Vindice
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ocmulgee | Sun Jul-03-05 07:23 PM |
Member since Jun 25th 2005
6 posts
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#6702, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 41
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>Thank you for that link to Ft. Stewart. I need to get over >there but that's a long trip for me. I'm going to call them >Tuesday though and get more info. Have you fished there >ocmulgee? > >Dan
No sir...i have'nt. It's the besy big bass water in the state overall IMO.
I would be well informed about the rules because it's a military base and their law overrides state law....even on the state roads going through the base.
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Chris | Tue Jul-12-05 03:37 AM |
Charter member
2185 posts
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#6739, "RE: The best world record Hoax?"
In response to Reply # 49
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No need to get riled. What did ya expect? I was suprised to see a post debating Perry's fish. But controversy over hot topics is what message boards interesting. It wouldn't be much fun if the only thing we posted was stuff we all agreed on.
So what do we argue about next?
Bedfishing? (fun) Moving the Classic to February (DUMB!) What happened to Fishburne? (mystery) How about where to align guides compared to a blanks spine? (in-line) Live bait in tourneys? :+ (just kidding) Banning jet skis on lakes? (YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! )
}( Chris
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© Copyright Robert Belloni 1997-2012. All Rights Reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed without express written consent.
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